Azek Exterior Door Surround on Brick Wall - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 07:21 PM

I'm hoping we may have a few in-house experts on Azek and it's applications. I have used the product before, but not in this particular situation.

Have a customer with a brick house (circa 1940s) that has a partially rotted, painted wood trim surround on her front entry. Wants to replace it with all new material - pricing is not so much an option as is not having to repair and repaint as often.

So my question(s) is/are:

1. Can I apply Azek directly to the brick? The door/entry is under a 20" soffit/overhang.

2. Should I apply P/T first, then Azek on top?

3. If not Azek, what type (species) of lumber would you recommend?

nEighter · 09-24-2009, 07:24 PM

so what is it that is rotted? The brickmold alone? Or is it the frame? Azek is vinyl man. Do it to it right on the brick. No worries man. Use pvc or christies or the like glue to glue your miters. Bout it. I use elastomerica caulk to caulk the seam from the brickmold to the brick, using backer rod if there is a bigger gap due to brick alignment.

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nEighter

so what is it that is rotted? The brickmold alone? Or is it the frame?

We are replacing the entire entry door (including frame) because of extensive damage (dry rot). Same as for the brickmold. Fairly intricate design - 8" wide fluted legs with plinth blocks, 12" wide top with 2 piece crown and dentil molding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nEighter

Azek is vinyl man. Do it to it right on the brick. No worries man. Use pvc or christies or the like glue to glue your miters. Bout it.

I guess I am perhaps overly concerned about movement of the Azek in heat and cold against the brick. Don't want large joints noticeable and though that apply a P/T base and building with Azek on top of that might minimze any potential movement.

bert0168 · 09-24-2009, 07:32 PM

Fypon http://www.fypon.com/ makes tons of entry way trim, door heads, moulding, etc for just this type of application. Stuff is made out of polystyrene. I've put this stuff up on alot of places.

nEighter · 09-24-2009, 07:33 PM

actually the movement you speak of should be handled by the elastomeric. It is truly a flexible caulk. I use it around doors and windows. It is code around here to do so. Make sure your PT is REALLY dry or else it will shrink up like you running naked into -30deg weather!

bert0168 · 09-24-2009, 07:33 PM

If you use the PL adhesive with this stuff and sink some tapcons it aint goin' nowhere.

I've done exactly what you seem to need to do with the glue and tapcons and no problems going on 5 years now.

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nEighter

actually the movement you speak of should be handled by the elastomeric. It is truly a flexible caulk. I use it around doors and windows. It is code around here to do so. Make sure your PT is REALLY dry or else it will shrink up like you running naked into -30deg weather!

So you suggest the P/T or place the Azek onto the brick directly?

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert0168

Fypon http://www.fypon.com/ makes tons of entry way trim, door heads, moulding, etc for just this type of application. Stuff is made out of polystyrene. I've put this stuff up on alot of places.

Thanks for the link - product seems just like Azek.

I am going to recreate all of the architectural pieces on site (or in the shop). Looked far and wide and can't find anything to match exactly - which is what the h/o wants.

nEighter · 09-24-2009, 07:43 PM

If it were me, and I was rebuilding the frame with PT I would then attach the azek to the framing. and caulk the azek to the brick. You may want to add some foam underlayment between the PT to brick to avoid air intrusion.

bert0168 · 09-24-2009, 07:43 PM

I had to do the wide fluted with plinths and ended up using a wide primed fluted pine trim I found at my lumber yard. Everything else I used was Fypon.

I bet if you looked in their selection you can come up with something very close that the HO will like for probably less than shop labor with the added feature that it will never rot.

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert0168

I had to do the wide fluted with plinths and ended up using a wide primed fluted pine trim I found at my lumber yard. Everything else I used was Fypon.

I bet if you looked in their selection you can come up with something very close that the HO will like for probably less than shop labor with the added feature that it will never rot.

Thanks bert, close is not good enough. She wants it exact...and made it clear cost was not an issue. I am not concerned about getting something close, or cost or time, just concerned about applying the product correctly (so to minimize movement and create the best looking and lasting finished product).

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nEighter

If it were me, and I was rebuilding the frame with PT I would then attach the azek to the framing. and caulk the azek to the brick. You may want to add some foam underlayment between the PT to brick to avoid air intrusion.

Kind of my gut instinct as well.

My dilemma is right now part of the trim is attached to the frame and directly to the brick. To recreate this, part of the Azek would be attached to the new frame and to the brick - or do I fir out the whole area with P/T and build the azek surround on top.

And I apologize for no pictures, as it would make it much easier - I will try and post tomorrow.

bert0168 · 09-24-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

Thanks bert, close is not good enough. She wants it exact...and made it clear cost was not an issue. I am not concerned about getting something close, or cost or time, just concerned about applying the product correctly (so to minimize movement and create the best looking and lasting finished product).

I am not being sarcastic but on a 60 yr old house, getting "exact" with a non-wood product, good luck.

nEighter · 09-24-2009, 07:58 PM

hmm.. yeah without pics it is really just a guessing game. But knowing doors, there is the frame that supports, holds the door to the framing. If that is all rotted out.. I would just use the PT for the portions touching the brick or concrete. putting the foam in between like putting the sill plate on a new house. the rest is just normal wood. Loneframer would be the one to showcase the use of Azek though.. he has some pretty nice pics of diff applications he has come up with. I have a bid I am working on right now that has some door treatment that I will be pricing azek for.

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bert0168

I am not being sarcastic but on a 60 yr old house, getting "exact" with a non-wood product, good luck.

Haha, I hear you, trust me, I tried to talk her into something stock.

For 60 years old the house does have a lot of good architecture and character. And it's not going to be hard getting it exact, all the architectural trim will come off in tact and be able to be used as templates for Azek reproductions.

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nEighter

hmm.. yeah without pics it is really just a guessing game. But knowing doors, there is the frame that supports, holds the door to the framing. If that is all rotted out.. I would just use the PT for the portions touching the brick or concrete. putting the foam in between like putting the sill plate on a new house. the rest is just normal wood. Loneframer would be the one to showcase the use of Azek though.. he has some pretty nice pics of diff applications he has come up with. I have a bid I am working on right now that has some door treatment that I will be pricing azek for.

Thanks, I know of loneframers work and his skill with this product is some of the best.

I am not questioning if it can or cannot be done, just curious as to the application of Azek directly to brick.

WNYcarpenter · 09-24-2009, 08:01 PM

can you break it down a little more...?

remove old door, replace RO framing with PT, install new door flush to framing, then trim with azec? Then you nail azec to door jamb, and you're questioning whether or not you can fasten the outside of your casing to the brick for expansion/contraction...?

Or....face frame the RO with 1x PT (tapcon'ed), then door, then azec with 3/4 return to brick?

I might be missing the whole point, but I think packing out the casing with PT and a return would be best for fasteners showing. I don't know what fasteners are available to attach finished trim to masonry, otherwise....nail to jamb and let the trim float the brick and caulk???

CookeCarpentry · 09-24-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNYcarpenter

can you break it down a little more...?

remove old door, replace RO framing with PT, install new door flush to framing, then trim with azec? Then you nail azec to door jamb, and you're questioning whether or not you can fasten the outside of your casing to the brick for expansion/contraction...?

Exactly, azek will be built up, bottom layer of 5/4" and a top layer of 3/4" fluted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WNYcarpenter

Or....face frame the RO with 1x PT (tapcon'ed), then door, then azec with 3/4 return to brick?

This is exactly what I am considering.

bert0168 · 09-24-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

Thanks, I know of loneframers work and his skill with this product is some of the best.

I am not questioning if it can or cannot be done, just curious as to the application of Azek directly to brick.

In that case, I would not feel safe with just adhesive, the two materials are too dissimilar. I would predrill and countersink tapcons anywhere anything touches brick (wood or Azek)

WNYcarpenter · 09-24-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

Exactly, azek will be built up, bottom layer of 5/4" and a top layer of 3/4" fluted.

This is exactly what I am considering.

IMPO, and I'd like to know if there's a better way....with all the different componets involved, I think you'd be better off face framing with a return, with a solid nailing base than trying to match miters and all the other issues applying trim to masonry. (the return would be less noticeable with flutes and plinths etc... than plain flatstock......that's just my 2 cents...