Adhesive For PVC Trim?

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-19-2011, 04:40 AM   #1
Member
 
Tylerb's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 25

Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Working an a gazebo that is going to have quite a bit of pvc trim work, what are you guys using for gluing up your miters? Found a couple specialty products on the certainteed website, but don't think they're available locally. Ill get a thread started showing some progress pics too, pretty sweet little job!
Tylerb is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   
 

Old 09-19-2011, 05:46 AM   #2
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,199
Rewards Points: 2,146

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Best thing to do is check with the manufacturer for their recommendation if you want them to honor their warranty.

Painting it anything darker than a shade of white may also be a warranty deal breaker.

__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to loneframer For This Useful Post:
Tylerb (09-21-2011)
Old 09-21-2011, 03:13 PM   #3
Member
 
Tylerb's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Should have expected that answer haha. Guess I thought there would be one product that met some sort of ANSI rating and was accepted on all brands of pvc. Either way, found out from the boss today it will be certainteed, so we will use trimtight pvc cement.
Tylerb is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 04:11 PM   #4
Finish Carpenter
 
TBFGhost's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish Carpentry, Reno
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lebanon, NJ
Posts: 4,975
Rewards Points: 2,696

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


I just tried out OSI TeqBond....OMG that stuff is great. I am thinking it is just Chrities Red Hot, but its really good stuff, makes a strong bond.

http://www.osipro.com/products.pl?id=TEQBOND




OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TeQ Bond™ PVC Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TEQ Bond™ - Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive, is specifically designed to adhere miter and scarf joints. It features a squeeze tube dispensing system for precise delivery of the adhesive to the joint without the mess. OSI® TEQ Bond's premium formula provides a permanent durable bond that prevents joint separation. The innovative formula provides gap filling capability and is water & weatherproof.
TBFGhost is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to TBFGhost For This Useful Post:
Tylerb (09-21-2011)
Old 09-21-2011, 04:16 PM   #5
Member
 
Tylerb's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Thanks for another option. I think I will stick with the trim tight providing we can get our hands on some. I like the idea of following manufacturer specs, and the idea of a solvent weld rather than just an adhesive.
Tylerb is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 04:33 PM   #6
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,199
Rewards Points: 2,146

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


I haven't found the magic bullet for scarf joint connections.

PVC is very prone to thermal movement and long runs need allowances for that movement. Even if the joints hold through a 12 month cycle, over time they will become problematic.

If I'm not mistaken, Mudpad did a project where they did a T&G type joint left free to expand and contract. I'd like to know how that stood the test of time.
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 04:36 PM   #7
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,199
Rewards Points: 2,146

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


BTW, pics are welcome and you can also include them in CTs project forum.
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 06:31 PM   #8
Finish Carpenter
 
TBFGhost's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish Carpentry, Reno
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lebanon, NJ
Posts: 4,975
Rewards Points: 2,696

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylerb View Post
Thanks for another option. I think I will stick with the trim tight providing we can get our hands on some. I like the idea of following manufacturer specs, and the idea of a solvent weld rather than just an adhesive.
It is a solvent weld....It smells like Model glue and when I finally was able to break the 45 degree scarf joint, you could see it melted the parts together.

I like the T and G idea...I personally would like to incorperate ways to allow Azek to expand and contract, but have all the movement happen at the ends and be hidden.
TBFGhost is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 06:48 PM   #9
The Duke
 
Kent Whitten's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Maker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 14,745
Rewards Points: 2,036

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBFGhost View Post
I just tried out OSI TeqBond....OMG that stuff is great. I am thinking it is just Chrities Red Hot, but its really good stuff, makes a strong bond.

http://www.osipro.com/products.pl?id=TEQBOND




OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TeQ Bond™ PVC Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TEQ Bond™ - Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive, is specifically designed to adhere miter and scarf joints. It features a squeeze tube dispensing system for precise delivery of the adhesive to the joint without the mess. OSI® TEQ Bond's premium formula provides a permanent durable bond that prevents joint separation. The innovative formula provides gap filling capability and is water & weatherproof.
We are working on a nice front porch right now and they sent this stuff out first and I too liked it alot. Bonds really good. On the side I made some column bases and used the two part Bond and Fill from another builder I work for. He says it's the shiznit. Violent fumes, holy cow it makes you high.
__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

SalmonFallsCabinetry.com

Salmon Falls Cabinetry on Facebook
Kent Whitten is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 07:00 PM   #10
Geometrist
 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 6,796
Rewards Points: 2,209

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


I needed this thread yesterday. Today I made up some Azek casing for a circle window. Two piece built up ring out of 1/2" sheet azek. Was afraid to use regular pvc cement because of the very short working time. I ended up using silicon and a few spots of pvc cement. What is the working time on that new stuff anyways?
Warren is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 07:13 PM   #11
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,199
Rewards Points: 2,146

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBFGhost View Post
It is a solvent weld....It smells like Model glue and when I finally was able to break the 45 degree scarf joint, you could see it melted the parts together.

I like the T and G idea...I personally would like to incorperate ways to allow Azek to expand and contract, but have all the movement happen at the ends and be hidden.
IME, the solvent welded joints become the weak link. It won't break cleanly on the miter, but will break along one or both of the short points of the scarf with a jagged edge. Long runs are especially problematic.

I've seen 18' lengths expand and contract over 3/4" when painted a shade of light brown. Left white, maybe half that amount.

I'm in the process of doing some field experiments with fastening techniques to try to control the movement, but my guess is, over time, it'll work the fasteners and continue to move on it's own will.

I think the next thing I'll try is a half lap slip joint on long runs. reason being, a neat consistent gap will look much nicer than a jagged broken joint. In theory, each gap should maintain an even space throughout the range of temperatures, whether it be 0" or 3/8".
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 07:18 PM   #12
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,199
Rewards Points: 2,146

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
I needed this thread yesterday. Today I made up some Azek casing for a circle window. Two piece built up ring out of 1/2" sheet azek. Was afraid to use regular pvc cement because of the very short working time. I ended up using silicon and a few spots of pvc cement. What is the working time on that new stuff anyways?
Not sure on the open time. I am sure that it will be affected by temperature and exposure of the working pieces.

Something you may want to try for laminating is 3Ms 5200 marine sealant.

http://www.3m.com/product/informatio...e-Sealant.html
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________

Last edited by loneframer; 09-21-2011 at 07:21 PM. Reason: specified application
loneframer is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 07:22 PM   #13
Pro
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Trade: siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 14,623
Rewards Points: 3,302

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


i now recomend windsor one protected for fascia and frieze and other well protected long trim elements,flash well,prime the cuts get some good paint on it and it's durable enough and less problematic than pvc or composites

windows,door trim,water tables.. those i think pvc is better suited
__________________
Tom
Tom Struble is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom Struble For This Useful Post:
superseal (09-21-2011)
Old 09-21-2011, 07:45 PM   #14
Pro
 
superseal's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry / Carpentry Construction and Restoration
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 3,351
Rewards Points: 2,476

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Pretty good thought process there Tom... The Hurd job is all MiraTec fascia and water table and seems to be holding up pretty good. ( I'm assuming Windsor one is similar? ) Long lengths show no stress at the joints (no more than wood anyway) and definitely less movement than PVC)

I think the slip joint for PVC is probably the answer for the long lengths - although, I haven't really done any yet.

The adhesive I'm using on the PVC window trim project, as some know, is Phenoseal. I had to loosen some casings the other day to slip in some capping and it was a bugger to remove. I laid a bead on the frame and at the miter/butt joints, then face and toe-screwed the ends. Hoping I don't get much movement with the shorter lengths.
superseal is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 08:09 PM   #15
Finish Carpenter
 
TBFGhost's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish Carpentry, Reno
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lebanon, NJ
Posts: 4,975
Rewards Points: 2,696

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
i now recomend windsor one protected for fascia and frieze and other well protected long trim elements,flash well,prime the cuts get some good paint on it and it's durable enough and less problematic than pvc or composites

windows,door trim,water tables.. those i think pvc is better suited
yeah, I too have been pushing Windsor One Plus Protected that and Cypress
TBFGhost is offline  
Old 09-21-2011, 10:43 PM   #16
President of the world
 
world llc's Avatar
 
Trade: general contractor
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chatham, NJ
Posts: 2,668
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


is christy's red hot no longer the go to adhesive?

i think it's versitex that has different adhesives with different open times for different applications. all will make a bond stronger than the pvc itself, they say...
world llc is offline  
Old 09-22-2011, 05:05 AM   #17
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,199
Rewards Points: 2,146

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by world llc View Post
is christy's red hot no longer the go to adhesive?

i think it's versitex that has different adhesives with different open times for different applications. all will make a bond stronger than the pvc itself, they say...
I still use it, but it is finicky. Very short open time and using it is voids any warranty claim in the future with some, if not all manufacturers.

Christy's is very aggressive and softens deeply into the material.

Personally, I don't think it matters what product you use, long runs will need room to move and if you don't provide this freedom, it will find a weak spot and use it. I've seen lengths that have broken in the field and not on the joint that was glued with Christy's. This was in a location that sees swings in temperature of 100 degrees through the seasons.
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to loneframer For This Useful Post:
Tom Struble (09-22-2011)
Old 09-22-2011, 05:55 PM   #18
topsail's trimcat
 
woodworkbykirk's Avatar
 
Trade: finish Carpenter/ renovations
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: ns, canada
Posts: 4,908
Rewards Points: 2,138

Re: Adhesive For PVC Trim?


i believe the new issue of fine homebuilding is featuring an article specifically about this topic, what adhesives to use, sealants to caulk it and proper fastening methods

__________________
putting down subfloor with glue and screws, well i saw dr. smith and the robot too , i had a martian burger and a sonic shake
woodworkbykirk is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to woodworkbykirk For This Useful Post:
loneframer (09-22-2011)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trim or Flooring first ddm_aet Finish Carpentry 29 09-22-2010 08:06 PM
Trim detail sans fascia crovello Carpentry 19 10-28-2009 08:01 PM
Composite trim and adhesive questions JLTrim Finish Carpentry 4 10-12-2008 03:55 PM
Good trim adhesive? banctecbobn Finish Carpentry 16 09-18-2008 06:24 AM
Proposals...... AAPaint Painting & Finish Work 3 08-25-2007 08:47 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?