Reasons Not To...

neolitic

Thanks guys.
I was just hoping for a nice fat
quote to smack the guy with.
"By sticking your condensate
in the trap, you violated 307.2-29,
the Legionella section!"

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Tinstaafl

I'm not much for ever-increasing regulations in any part of my life. But I certainly do agree that you shouldn't have to be half-lawyer with a research staff to be able to deal with them.

Gotta make some calls. Carry on.

Ron The Plumber

Did you know a plumbing inspector has the power in this state to put a violator under arrest for repeat violation.

neolitic

Okay now there is a quote I can use!
Just what I was looking for.
I knew it was wrong, but didn't know
how to phrase it for him.

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Ron The Plumber

Wow that took 63 post to get you the answer you wanted.

KillerToiletSpider

Probably because I was to stupid to grasp what Neo was trying to get to in the first place.

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Ron The Plumber

Yea if he would have gone straight to the point, and left all the details out.

neolitic

Sorry, I don't know how
to talk to a plumber if I
can't wave my arms, draw
pictures, and cuss!
Thanks guys.
I always learn something.

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neolitic

Worth every penny.

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Double-A

OK Neo, quick plumberspeak lesson for you.

Standpipe, basically a pipe sticking up in the air to receive the discharge (usually from a washing machine) with a trap at the bottom of it.

Air gap, Is is simple what it sounds like. It is a gap of air, between the outlet of the fixture (think tub spout or faucet spout) and the level at which the fixture (think sink) would flood. In other words, the highest point the sink can hold water, before it runs over. An air gap is needed to prevent dirty water from getting back into the spout. In this case, its to prevent the HVAC A Coil from getting a bad case of the nastys from the sewer.

An air gap can also be a mechanical device that holds the outlet of a fixture (like the water softener) above the flood rim of a "fixture"... in this case, the "stand pipe". It would bolt on or glue onto the 2 or 3 inch pipe, and have a "bowl" built into it, with a hole for the water to go out, and a thingy to hold that hose tightly over that "bowl".

I also question the fixture unit sizing of that 2" drain. I think its right at being overloaded. If you figure a kitchen sink with disposer, and dishwasher, then add the washing machine, the HVAC condensate, and the water softener...

It should have failed 5 years ago.

Also, I'm under the IPC here... 2006 with Arkansas revisions I think. We require a trap primer on all traps that receive condensate, as this is a seasonal use of the trap. It needs water in it at all times to do its job. In the winter, it will dry out and allow sewer gases into the house.

Also... we might require an interceptor to neutralize any acidic or high PH water before it can be allowed into the sewer.

So. That thing ain't right no matter how you slice it.

My suggestion, have her call the HVAC folks and have them come look at it. They have violated the mechanical code I guarantee it. The mechanical code will cite the plumbing code for proper condensate discharge requirements. That ain't proper. So, they hosed the UPC plumbing and the mechanical. It also ain't "workman like" in manner. Altering a fitting by cutting the side of it ain't workman like.

If they don't want to fix it, have her call a local plumber and get their words on what it will take to fix it, then call the mechanical code inspector and the plumbing inspector in the area and complain.

I bet the HVAC folks will be out there in a jiffy with a licensed plumber to make it right.

Oh, and while you're there... if that is a gas furnace, check to see if they are penetrating the sheet metal surround of the furnace with the gas entrance with a gas flex or hard steel. Here you have to have hard steel or protect the flex against abrasion. I bet they overlooked that as well.

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neolitic

Okay, I just found some of those
little 3X5 paper things that say
Kodak on the back.
Pictures of the rough-in show my
memory ain't what it was.
Kitchen goes to the main stack,
and there was a funny looking
piece of plastic on top of that 2"
that looks kind of like a dome
with a window on the side?
All I remembered was it was
a lot taller than now.
Can't tell what was happening
with the old softener line.
Apparently none of that was
interesting enough to take good pix.
I've got all the stuff that we
poured concrete on or drywalled
over though.
Thanks for futhering my edumaction.

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Ron The Plumber

Did it look like this?

Attached Images

 

neolitic

Not that complicated, I think.
It just shows through the back wall
of the shower.
Like I said I wasn't really trying
to record anything that wasn't
being covered up.
No idea that any of this would
ever be an issue.
I can tell that there is some
kind of "window" or cut out
in it.
If I had to say,it might be
kind of like a cap with legs?
Really hard to see.

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Darwin

Great how the guy notched out that drain pipe to accomodate the 3/4 " pipe. Musta took every bit of a half a day to do that..

neolitic

They are sending a super out
Tuesday P.M. to "assess"
the problem.

To be continued............

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neolitic

Well,this is what the HVAC guy did.
I'm gonna guess it's not finished?




The top of that pipe looks to be
at least 8" above the sink rim.

The plumber said he originally
had a "stand pipe air gap."
He'll give me another one tomorrow
if he's got one in the shop.

I'm guessing from the old pix that
it was something like this one?



If that is the case, I just wonder
what would be the difference between
that, and just drilling/ cutting
a couple of holes in the pipe
just above the flood level?

Trying to learn something here,
I'm sure it's flawed logic.

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neolitic

After I mentioned the air gap
to the HO, she had them out
again last week.
This is what they left her with.



It seems to perform the function,
at least I don't know what to
argue with.
I put the black mark on at the
level of the laundry sink rim.

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ChrWright

Looks half-assed.

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neolitic

N/S?

I do believe it's functional though.
Other than esthetics, I'm not
sure I can fault him.
I'm sure ready to be over it,
and she's happy the suds don't
belch out on the floor.

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flashheatingand

Why wouldn't the hvac guy simply install a condensate pump ($35.00 wholesale) and plumb it into the washer drain? No need to mess with the plumbing, and all the potential headaches. Better yet, if the water softener pipe was already there, just pump to that pipe. Simple Simon no more issues.