Reasons Not To... - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 04:25 PM

This was a 28-30" stand pipe
when my plumber put it in.

HVAC guy changed out the
air handler and did this.
(horizontal ¾" is condensate.)
Up stream is the washer and
utility sink.
"Occasionally", as the stains attest,
this thing over flows, though
I can't make it happen.
Would there be anything wrong
with putting in a sanitary tee
and running the condensate line
into a bushing?
Any more clever ideas?

Ooops, vertical ¾" picks up
softener drain.

JumboJack · 05-06-2009, 04:29 PM

KillerToiletSpider · 05-06-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

This was a 28-30" stand pipe
when my plumber put it in.

HVAC guy changed out the
air handler and did this.
(horizontal ¾" is condensate.)
Up stream is the washer and
utility sink.
"Occasionally", as the stains attest,
this thing over flows, though
I can't make it happen.
Would there be anything wrong
with putting in a sanitary tee
and running the condensate line
into a bushing?
Any more clever ideas?

Ooops, vertical ¾" picks up
softener drain.

Never ever tie a condensate drain directly to a plumbing drain, it allows sewer gas to enter the air being pushed through the house. You would be far better off piping the condensate to a pump and re-establishing the stand pipe for the drain and pumping the condenstae to it, it costs a bit more, but it beats the hell out of allowing the chance for Legionaire's disease or something similar being introduced to the ventilation air.

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpider

Never ever tie a condensate drain directly to a plumbing drain, it allows sewer gas to enter the air being pushed through the house. You would be far better off piping the condensate to a pump and re-establishing the stand pipe for the drain and pumping the condenstae to it, it costs a bit more, but it beats the hell out of allowing the chance for Legionaire's disease or something similar being introduced to the ventilation air.

Even though it would be 8" above the trap?
Is there no difference if it were,
say 8" (pick a number) above the
flow line of the trap outlet?
That's why I'm asking.

F**king tinner!

naptown CR · 05-06-2009, 06:40 PM

This is a possible cross connect situation. the code says that you need to have a minimum of a 3" air gap above the flood level rim to drain condensate etc. This means that if you were draining the softener into the sink the drain outlet would have to be 3" above the rim of the sink to eliminate any backflow situation. In this case I would raise the standpipe to 24" again. Install a "Y" fitting with about about a 3" vertical section. From the straight section of the Y fitting I would extend the original drain up about about a foot. Terminate the condensate etc into the vertical section at least 3" above the terminus of the open ended Y section so there can be no backflow situation. This all assumes that there is a trap at the bottom of the standpipe and a proper vent. Does this make sense?

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 06:50 PM

Not possible without a pump.
Tray on the A coil is about
even with the rim of the sink.
Drain line has to go down to
miss the access door on
the air handler.

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 07:14 PM

Now that I think of it,
the idiot put the end of his line
in the trap.
I'll tell her to have him pay
for or give her a pump.
She'll love the Legionnaire's part.

Thanks guys.

KillerToiletSpider · 05-06-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

Even though it would be 8" above the trap?
Is there no difference if it were,
say 8" (pick a number) above the
flow line of the trap outlet?
That's why I'm asking.

F**king tinner!

It would have to be 25 FEET above the trap to prevent a possible syphon, and trapping the condensate will not protect from the possibilty of sewer gas, as condensate traps are not vented. In Chicago you are required to provide a floor drain in a mechanical room for this very reason.

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerToiletSpider

It would have to be 25 FEET above the trap to prevent a possible syphon, and trapping the condensate will not protect from the possibilty of sewer gas, as condensate traps are not vented. In Chicago you are required to provide a floor drain in a mechanical room for this very reason.

A/C was not that common
when they hand dug this
basement in 1929.

Get the PM?

silvertree · 05-06-2009, 08:12 PM

Install the stand pipe with drum trap a and pump the condensate into that.
Of course that's the wild *ss sh*t some carpenters do

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertree

Install the stand pipe with drum trap a and pump the condensate into that.
Of course that's the wild *ss sh*t some carpenters do

???????

naptown CR · 05-06-2009, 09:07 PM

ok pump for condensate works. raise standpipe create and air gap to prevent backflow. BTW how much iron is in the water. either that or someone is s

ing in the drain. how far away is the vent. do the owners run the washer at the same time the softener regererates? many possible causes. you really need to raise the standpipe to eliminate the overflow. make hvac guy put in a pump and restore to what it was.

**ChrWright** · 05-06-2009, 09:16 PM

Who did that work Neo..... so I can avoid them...

If you don't mind telling, send me a PM.

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrWright

Who did that work Neo..... so I can avoid them...

If you don't mind telling, send me a PM.

HO had it done after we
did other work in the basement.
I will be finding out
tomorrow, if he left a sticker
I'll post.

neolitic · 05-06-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naptown CR

ok pump for condensate works. raise standpipe create and air gap to prevent backflow. BTW how much iron is in the water. either that or someone is s

ing in the drain. how far away is the vent. do the owners run the washer at the same time the softener regererates? many possible causes. you really need to raise the standpipe to eliminate the overflow. make hvac guy put in a pump and restore to what it was.

That is pretty much the plan.
Don't know what the stain is.
More yellow than iron, and
it's city water, usually just
limey.
If you saw how tight it is
back there it would eliminate
your suggestion.

neolitic · 05-07-2009, 05:07 PM

Anyone who can give me a code cite?
We are UPC (1997 with amendments
I believe.)
HO is having the HVAC guy call me.

I'd like to be prepared for B/S.

Ron The Plumber · 05-08-2009, 08:57 AM

According to UPC that Indirect waste needs an airgap. Location could be an issue here. I bet the bottom of that trap is less then six inches, but this trap by it's self is not for a laundry drain right?

neolitic · 05-08-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber

According to UPC that Indirect waste needs an airgap. Location could be an issue here. I bet the bottom of that trap is less then six inches, but this trap by it's self is not for a laundry drain right?

No, the washer drain and laundry sink
are up stream from there (to the left
in the first pic.)
There was originally a 2" pipe
on the trap that was above the
sink rim.
The softener and condensate just
dumped into the open pipe.
I'm probably wrong calling that
a stand pipe.
Any way the HVAC guy put the end
of that ¾" line in the trap water.
I want to give him the code that says
that is a no-no.
I'm guessing it's in 307.2 something?
I'm going blind looking....
I hate your code books!

neolitic · 05-08-2009, 10:27 AM

Maybe this makes it clearer.

All of the ¾" and the 2X3 adapter
were done by the HVAC guy
when he changed out the furnace.
That is the softener drain coming
in the top, and there is a piece of
¾ coming down below the tee
that sticks into the trap water.

Ron The Plumber · 05-08-2009, 04:04 PM

It need an air gap, period.