Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar.

Candlewood · 11-01-2008, 05:33 PM

So I have been building this 2 story house, with an agreement that the home owner was going to do the plumbing. He swore on his mothers grave, he knew what he was doing. So after the electrical and HVAC was installed he finally showed up 2 weeks after we agreed on a start date. I pulled off the job to start another 2 story addition and came back in a 1 1/2 weeks. Looked at his plumbing and said "FARRRRRKKKKK". He had chopped my floor joist, wall studs, and even the sub-flooring all to sh#t. The toilet flange in the second floor guest bath, was directly over a floor joist and he put a 6x6 notch in a 2x10x12 joist.He drilled 4" holes in a 2x10. He drilled within 2" of the top of the floor joist, and I found the rough in inspection ticket, all it said was ECT,ECT,ECT....

Well I called the home owner, plumbing inspector, and my plumber. Got it all straighted out as far as the plumbing went, I had my licensed MASTER plumber come in and yanked out everything from water to waste. The home owner ran 1/2 cpvc line from the 3/4 main in the crawl to everything. He didnt run 3/4 upstairs. Hell, he didnt even use 3/4 pipe any where.

So after we get a PASS on the plumbing, The framing inspection comes, knowing what was going to happen, I called it in anyway. Only thing I fail for is the floor joist. So this is what I came up with to fix the problem. Already been approved from the county.
I know you can use 5/8's osb glued and screwed to mend the joist. But the problem with that was the pipe and holes were already there.

1/4" steel plates 24"x9" 1/2" bolts.

ummmmmm.....???????

Home owner says he did it and he can live with it. ??????

Who says you have to put it on before the pipe goes through it.

Dan_Watson · 11-01-2008, 05:42 PM

Is that a big chip on the tub?
Where are those plates from?
Did you have to cut them?

threaderman · 11-01-2008, 06:15 PM

That's pretty stuff...pretty messed-up!That is one of my biggest beefs with DIY's is they don't have a clue about structural integrity,they feel a couple of holes here and there won't hurt anything and are ignorant about building codes.
I did a job yesterday for a repeat customer and 1 year after installing some csst. gas line,they haven't had an electrician come out and run a ground to it,and they have the money!

Candlewood · 11-01-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwaysconfusd11

Is that a big chip on the tub?
Where are those plates from?
Did you have to cut them?

Yeah its a big chunk of porcelain missing. No fixing that unless the tub is replaced. Unless yall know someone who could?

I had the plates made by Martin Metalfab. I took all the dimensions and designed them, they just made a program and punched out the holes, ect.

There was no in the field modification. They all fit tight as a ticks

sutcac · 11-01-2008, 08:01 PM

Wow, I've seen quite a bit and that is right up there among the top DIY blunders I have seen. Quite the creative solution though.

The more I went along over the years as a contractor, the less I would agree to let homeowners do anything.

send_it_all · 11-01-2008, 08:21 PM

I cant believe he is letting that tub slide. It would cost what?...$300 bucks and 2 hours tops to replace it? Doing the work himself of course...the master plumber that he is.

Chris Johnson · 11-01-2008, 08:58 PM

So, how much did he save when it was all said and done?

woodworkbykirk · 11-01-2008, 09:14 PM

viddy viddy scary, what will he say when the inspector sees all that

genecarp · 11-01-2008, 09:43 PM

Just when you thought you saw it all, WTF

MALCO.New.York · 11-01-2008, 11:28 PM

Is there ANY fall in his waste?

I can see it in the Crap line but not so sure elsewhere.

Candlewood · 11-02-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson

So, how much did he save when it was all said and done?

Well after the my plumbers bill (4200.00), the steel (740.00), and my time and labor to replace (2)2x10x12 floor joist plus the installation of the steel, also I am now almost 3 weeks behind schedule. All and all it cost the homeowner between 7-8k for me to fix his muck-ups. Not to mention all the material he bought, and his time.

Candlewood · 11-02-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York

Is there ANY fall in his waste?

I can see it in his Crap line but not so sure elsewhere.

All of the original plumbing was taken out, he had tees in horizontal piping, back fall everywhere. ECT ECT ECT

The plumbing has passed inspection.

Candlewood · 11-02-2008, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodworkbykirk

viddy viddy scary, what will he say when the inspector sees all that

All inspections passed. Even the framing.

MALCO.New.York · 11-02-2008, 10:19 AM

Really like those Jack-Plates you fabricated! EXCELLENT job!

Dan_Watson · 11-02-2008, 10:22 AM

I have a guy around here, South Jersey, that could probably fix that. Why wouldnt you just replace it?

Candlewood · 11-02-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York

Really like those Jack-Plates you fabricated! EXCELLENT job!

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alwaysconfusd11

I have a guy around here, South Jersey, that could probably fix that. Why wouldnt you just replace it?

/Read thread above

Chris Johnson · 11-02-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candlewood

Well after the my plumbers bill (4200.00), the steel (740.00), and my time and labor to replace (2)2x10x12 floor joist plus the installation of the steel, also I am now almost 3 weeks behind schedule. All and all it cost the homeowner between 7-8k for me to fix his muck-ups. Not to mention all the material he bought, and his time.

So somewhere between 25 and 30k...did your contract specify this...HO delays and repairs to his work?

PARA1 · 11-09-2008, 09:01 PM

Looks like sh#t

gregj · 11-11-2008, 03:14 PM

Since the plates are in I assume these pics are after your MP ripped it all out and replaced it. Why did your MP rip it all out and then put it back in the same holes? Why not rip it out, have you sister the bad joists (the ones with noncode compliant holes) and then run the dwv right?

And why put the dwv back before the mending plates - the split plates aren't going to be as effective as whole plates - though 1/4" plates on both sides of each joist seems way overkill? Did the Engineer spec the plates or was this just a WAG deal with the inspector?

Not defending the shoddy HO work but it looks like the plumbing plan and framing did not synch up if you ended up running the dwv through those joists anyway. Why was there a floor joist where the toilet flange was suppose to go?

MALCO.New.York · 11-11-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregj

Since the plates are in I assume these pics are after your MP ripped it all out and replaced it. Why did your MP rip it all out and then put it back in the same holes? Why not rip it out, have you sister the bad joists (the ones with noncode compliant holes) and then run the dwv right?

And why put the dwv back before the mending plates - the split plates aren't going to be as effective as whole plates - though 1/4" plates on both sides of each joist seems way overkill? Did the Engineer spec the plates or was this just a WAG deal with the inspector?

Not defending the shoddy HO work but it looks like the plumbing plan and framing did not synch up if you ended up running the dwv through those joists anyway. Why was there a floor joist where the toilet flange was suppose to go?

Not "All" of it was ripped out. No how. No way.

All in the sense of "All" of the unacceptable (the majority) Plumbing.

My guess!

11-01-2008, 05:33 PM	#1
Candlewood View Profile Candlewood Being an A-hole Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (89) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Being an A-hole Trade: General Contractor Join Date: May 2008 Location: Richmond , Virginia Posts: 89	Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. So I have been building this 2 story house, with an agreement that the home owner was going to do the plumbing. He swore on his mothers grave, he knew what he was doing. So after the electrical and HVAC was installed he finally showed up 2 weeks after we agreed on a start date. I pulled off the job to start another 2 story addition and came back in a 1 1/2 weeks. Looked at his plumbing and said "FARRRRRKKKKK". He had chopped my floor joist, wall studs, and even the sub-flooring all to sh#t. The toilet flange in the second floor guest bath, was directly over a floor joist and he put a 6x6 notch in a 2x10x12 joist.He drilled 4" holes in a 2x10. He drilled within 2" of the top of the floor joist, and I found the rough in inspection ticket, all it said was ECT,ECT,ECT.... Well I called the home owner, plumbing inspector, and my plumber. Got it all straighted out as far as the plumbing went, I had my licensed MASTER plumber come in and yanked out everything from water to waste. The home owner ran 1/2 cpvc line from the 3/4 main in the crawl to everything. He didnt run 3/4 upstairs. Hell, he didnt even use 3/4 pipe any where. So after we get a PASS on the plumbing, The framing inspection comes, knowing what was going to happen, I called it in anyway. Only thing I fail for is the floor joist. So this is what I came up with to fix the problem. Already been approved from the county. I know you can use 5/8's osb glued and screwed to mend the joist. But the problem with that was the pipe and holes were already there. 1/4" steel plates 24"x9" 1/2" bolts. ummmmmm.....??????? Home owner says he did it and he can live with it. ?????? Who says you have to put it on before the pipe goes through it. __________________ Email candlewoodconstruction@comcast.net Website Under Construction

11-01-2008, 05:42 PM	#2
Dan_Watson View Profile Dan_Watson Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,496) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (8) View All Activity Pro Trade: Registered Home Improvement Contractor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,496	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. Is that a big chip on the tub? Where are those plates from? Did you have to cut them?

11-01-2008, 06:15 PM	#3
threaderman View Profile threaderman Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,178) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Plumbing & Gas Contractor Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Oklahoma city Posts: 1,178	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. That's pretty stuff...pretty messed-up!That is one of my biggest beefs with DIY's is they don't have a clue about structural integrity,they feel a couple of holes here and there won't hurt anything and are ignorant about building codes. I did a job yesterday for a repeat customer and 1 year after installing some csst. gas line,they haven't had an electrician come out and run a ground to it,and they have the money! __________________ Joe ---International Code Council Member Your plumbing & gas specialist proudly serving Oklahoma City OK, Moore, Warr-acres, Norman, Midwest City, Edmond, Bethany, Forest Park

11-01-2008, 08:01 PM	#5
sutcac View Profile sutcac Architect & Contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (25) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Architect & Contractor Trade: General Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Arroyo Grande, CA Posts: 25	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. Wow, I've seen quite a bit and that is right up there among the top DIY blunders I have seen. Quite the creative solution though. The more I went along over the years as a contractor, the less I would agree to let homeowners do anything. __________________ Bryce Engstrom: Architect A.I.A. & General Contractor www.engstromarchitecture.com www.central-coast-project-design-planning-guides.com Chief to Kerkythea Training Videos

11-01-2008, 08:21 PM	#6
send_it_all View Profile send_it_all Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,989) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: general contractor/ remodeling Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orange County, Ca. Posts: 1,989	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. I cant believe he is letting that tub slide. It would cost what?...$300 bucks and 2 hours tops to replace it? Doing the work himself of course...the master plumber that he is.

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11-01-2008, 08:58 PM	#7
Chris Johnson View Profile Chris Johnson I'm a Mac Send Message Follow Blogs (1) Threads (3,262) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (1) View All Activity I'm a Mac Trade: ICF Construction Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hog Town Posts: 3,262	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. So, how much did he save when it was all said and done? __________________ Chris

11-01-2008, 09:14 PM	#8
woodworkbykirk View Profile woodworkbykirk topsail's trimcat Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,248) Photos (92) Reviews (2) Projects (0) Toolbox (20) View All Activity topsail's trimcat Trade: finish Carpenter/ renovations Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: ns, canada Posts: 3,248	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. viddy viddy scary, what will he say when the inspector sees all that

11-01-2008, 09:43 PM	#9
genecarp View Profile genecarp Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (5,426) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: LI,NY designer, new homes, renovation work, concre Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 5,426	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. Just when you thought you saw it all, WTF __________________

11-01-2008, 11:28 PM	#10
MALCO.New.York View Profile MALCO.New.York Handle It! Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (9,369) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Handle It! Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA Posts: 9,369	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. Is there ANY fall in his waste? I can see it in the Crap line but not so sure elsewhere. __________________ Something to One may be Nothing to another! Ultimate Wisdom--------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE Last edited by MALCO.New.York; 11-02-2008 at 10:54 AM.

11-02-2008, 10:19 AM	#14
MALCO.New.York View Profile MALCO.New.York Handle It! Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (9,369) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Handle It! Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA Posts: 9,369	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. Really like those Jack-Plates you fabricated! EXCELLENT job! __________________ Something to One may be Nothing to another! Ultimate Wisdom--------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

11-02-2008, 10:22 AM	#15
Dan_Watson View Profile Dan_Watson Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,496) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (8) View All Activity Pro Trade: Registered Home Improvement Contractor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,496	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. I have a guy around here, South Jersey, that could probably fix that. Why wouldnt you just replace it?

11-09-2008, 09:01 PM	#18
PARA1 View Profile PARA1 FT.WORTH,TX MASTER PLUMB Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (403) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity FT.WORTH,TX MASTER PLUMB Trade: plumbing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 403	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. Looks like sh#t __________________ YESTER DAY IS HISTORY, TOMORROW IS A MYSTERY http://paradiseplumbinganddrains.com...bers-dallas-tx

11-11-2008, 03:14 PM	#19
gregj View Profile gregj Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (186) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: GC Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 186	Re: Homeowners Pinch A Penny, Cost Them A Dollar. Since the plates are in I assume these pics are after your MP ripped it all out and replaced it. Why did your MP rip it all out and then put it back in the same holes? Why not rip it out, have you sister the bad joists (the ones with noncode compliant holes) and then run the dwv right? And why put the dwv back before the mending plates - the split plates aren't going to be as effective as whole plates - though 1/4" plates on both sides of each joist seems way overkill? Did the Engineer spec the plates or was this just a WAG deal with the inspector? Not defending the shoddy HO work but it looks like the plumbing plan and framing did not synch up if you ended up running the dwv through those joists anyway. Why was there a floor joist where the toilet flange was suppose to go?

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