Ran Into A Friend Today

karma_carpentry

He was just back from DC where he met with Hilary Clinton, and Connecticut, where he helped Liebermann lose. His son died in Iraq. He towed his son's casket to the White House. He got pulled over 12 times by the Capitol Police, but they could find nothing wrong with his vehicle. Ned Lamont gave him $50 for gas money, and he drove around campaigning for him in Spanish in Connecticut, with his son's casket on the trailer behind his Nissan truck.

He pressure washed my client's deck for $150 today. He was glad for the work.

When he finished, he showed me a folder of newspaper clippings about his son's heroic actions in Iraq, and about the ways that Carlos' protest actions have changed the minds of many.

He said, "I've lost the soul of me, the heart of me. I don't exist to me. I'm a dead man walking."

He also does driveway sealcoating.

tgeb

I am very sorry for your friends loss.

Tell him Thank You for the sacrifice of his family in the defense of our country.
His son was a brave man.

God bless.

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Tom

www.gebcon.com

Tscarborough

I feel for him; he has had a great personal tragedy. Nothing can change the fact that his son was lost, and nothing he can do, or we can do can change that.

What he is doing appears to go against his son's memory and personal wishes, however. How would his son have felt about his current actions, given that the son volunteered to serve this country in the most dangerous yet patriotic way possible?

Note that I am not criticizing this gentleman, nor calling into question his patriotism or love of his son or this country. I simply think that he is not honoring the memory of his son by dragging his casket around the country and using his sacrifice for political use. You honor the dead by celebrating their life.

Tom R

Sorry about your friend's loss, - - but what a morbid thing to do to his son . . .

Sounds like he's diminishing what his son stood for, - - for reasons of his own.

Sorry to say, - - sounds reminiscent of a Cindy Sheehan mentality.

He really should see a doctor, - - he may be dangerous to himself, or even others right now.

jvcstone

Maybe you should take your own advice ,TOM

Sometimes you go well beyond good taste in you idiotic bluster.

What gives you, or anyone for that matter, the right to criticize how a parent morns, or remembers, their war dead?

You are such a gung ho kill them all person, I'd like to know what your war experience is? Have you even served your country? Just what have you done in the name of freedom besides being so threatening on a public forum??

For the record, I have served--in the jungles of SE Asia. I know first hand what rockets, and mortars, and arc flights dropping 500 pounders can do. I've seen men die, and carry my own scars. Ever since, I've been fighting for the American PEOPLE"S freedom through the polls, and on occasion in the streets. I've earned that right. So have Cindy Shehan, and the gentleman this post was about.

Again, I ask how have you earned your right to be so critical of differing points of view. That's what this democracy you're so intent on seeing people fight for is really all about.

OH, by the way, Tom, the recruiting age is now up to 45 --why don't you put your body where your mouth is??

JVC

__________________
John VanCamp
www.jvcstoneworks.com

Tscarborough

In the U.S. you do not have to earn that right, John, it is not only your right but your duty. Different people have different concepts of what that duty entails, however.

Mike Finley

I'm betting his son would want to slap the taste of our his fathers mouth for using him as a political pawn instead of morning him respectfully. If his son doesn't feel this way, his son wasn't much of a man anyway, but I doubt that is the case. I'm also betting his sons brothers in arms over in Iraq still would like to take turns seeing how far their jump boots will fit up this guys ass.

theworx

JVC, dragging your son's casket around the country is not mourning (it's using him as a Bill Board). The father may have a point he wants to make but is doing it the wrong way. By the way, I have never seen any post from Tom threatening in any way (he says his opinion). That's what your military (including yourself) have fought for, freedom. And that includes freedom of speech.

Also, I agree with Tom. The guy should seek some help (counceling). I don't think he might be apt to hurt others but comments from him like "I'm a dead man walking" show the man is mentally unstable right now... The fact that Tom mentioned diminishing what the son stood for (meaning: fighting for his country) shows me Tom appreciates the son's efforts to maintain freedom...

Tom R

Let's face it, - - this subject started out 'beyond' good taste. The poor fella is not in his right mind right now.


Free speech as an American, - - you're always 'for it' when you spew YOUR VILE.


No 'war' experience, John, - - I'm unaware that it's required under the definition of OPINION.


United States Air Force, John, 1973, - - joined at 17 years old, right out of high school. Honorable Discharge. The VietNam draft had just ended (a year or two??) before.


I've simply voiced my opinions, - - and judging by your reactions, - - they seem to be hitting home.


Kudos to your service, John, - - but it sounds like You, Cindy Sheehan, and the Gentleman (the father) this post was about would SERVE only if you HAD TO, - - I would serve my country because I WANT TO.

I'll venture to say, judging from your views, your 'service' was more a matter of timing than of Patriotism.

Your HIGH HORSE is QUITE IMAGINARY, I assure you.


You ask this while criticizing MY POINT OF VIEW??


I'm 50, John, - - and if they 'up' that age, - - I'll be there at a MINUTE'S NOTICE.

Speedy Petey

Am I the only one who sees this as just an imaginative story? One that gives you something to think about.

I may be the consummate cynic, but I don't buy it.
Sounds too Hollywood.

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karma_carpentry

I have to come clean. I didn't mean to mislead everyone, but his son's not in the casket. His son was killed in 2004 and he's got a casket that symbolizes his son's. He's been doing this since then. To maintain the memory of his son's heroism, to give it some meaning to himself, and because he questions whether his son's death was necessary and what good it did.

I don't know if you remember in 2004 when a man burned a U.S. government van with himself inside it when he heard his son had been killed. He'd told the three officers "Get off my property now!" when they told him his son had been killed. They said "We can't leave sir." He repeated his command. They still didn't leave. He went to his garage and got gasoline and a torch and spilled it around their van and lit it. That's Carlos.

I guess he's not so mentally stable, but he's not dangerous to anyone else. I'd say he could use counseling, but far be it from me to judge what the correct response to your son's death is. I didn't know his son, only Carlos, but knowing him, I am pretty sure he wouldn't distort his son's memory. I've seen a letter his son wrote home wondering if any progress was being made, and whether it's worth it that they were there risking their lives.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to misleasd anyone, and I didn't mean this to be a political thread. Just sort of a weird occurence yesterday.

DaveH

Sometimes people join the military to travel the world and do more before 9am....Some join because they believe in the cause and are willing to risk their lives for it. If "Carlos's" son was one of the 1st group I'm sorry, but he was in a mans world, and if he was in the second group he would be very upset his father was doing this to his memory. I wonder if Cindy Sheehan's son was part of the first or second group? I know she needs counciling for sure..

__________________
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R&S Exteriors

This should be the POST OF THE DAY because Speedy Petey had the guts to state what we all knew was true, but were reluctant to post.

I saw this post last night and almost responded "Bull Sh*t", but knew all the Libs were waiting to JUMP.

Any father or mother who pulled a casket by the White house, even once, would be the "darling" of the media and we would have had 24/7 coverage just like Sheehan and Lamont would have given muchmore than $50 bucks. He would have had red carpet rolled out in front of the guy everywhere he went.

Just more left wing fiction

R&S Exteriors

Hmmm the Liberals love to cry about their Constitutional Rights and Civil Rights being taken away BUT if they don't like what someone with an oposing view says then "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY THAT OR DO THAT"


Hey JVC every American has a right to voice their opinion whether they served or not.


What RIGHT do YOU have to say that Tom R can't voice his opinion????????


That point of view sounds allot like the Muslim Fanatics thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You don't have to serve to voice your opinion. I served for 7 1/2 years in the Army and in combat in Iraq. That and $1.50 will get me a cup of coffee. It does not mean I have more of a right to post my views than anyone else. It may give me a little more insight about these terrorist scum but thats it. Although Ihave noticed that most of the shrieking Libs on this forum think I have less of a right to post than they do.


As far as what these parents are doing for the "left" in the name of their dead children. I think (my opinion) that it is horrible. Their children Volunteered for the Military. Many volunteered after 9/11. And if my parents did that I would haunt them the rest of their lives.


As far as Sheehan. She is doing if for herself. For her day in the public eye. She hugged Bush when he met with her after her Son's death. Only about a year later when some liberals filled her head with goo did she become an idiot.

6stringmason

Has her son gotten his gravestone yet? I feel sorry for him. I read the Sheehan story, and it made me sick. That woman gave him up when he was what, 2? Someday she will get what she has coming to her.

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Tom R

You know, - - that brings up an interesting point.

For the (at least) HUNDREDS of times I've heard Democrats bring up the point of 'time served', - - I've NEVER ONCE heard a REPUBLICAN try to use his TIME SERVED as an EXCUSE to INVALIDATE an OPPOSING OPINION!!

Guess I better not hear anyone ever dispute OLIVER NORTH'S opinion again.

Of course, - - I guess that's ANN COULTER's whole (valid) point in her book 'GODLESS', - - about Liberals using certain people as PROPS.

You know, - - Murtha, Sheehan, the Jersey Girls, - - the list goes on.

Tom R

Just for the record, - - I don't really know if the story itself is true or not, - - but I don't think Karma made it up, - - at least not from his end.

oldgoat

I'm not sure that this story is true, but on the other hand I can't really say that I can really blame the man either. I doubt that any of us know how we would react to losing a son in a war that we weren't for ourselves. I do know from a couple of aunts that losing a child is the worst that they have ever gone through and one of them had already lost her husband of over 50 years. That he is using his son's memory to work to get us out of Iraq I don't really see as anything more wrong than a person that has lost their child to a child predator, but we don't chastize them. Whether or not we have served isn't as much a issue anymore since the draft ended years ago and so many haven't served. It is a right, and for that matter a duty, of a citizen to voice their opinions whether it be war or economics.

Speedy Petey

Tom, I get that point and aggree. It just seemed like one of those you see circulated via e-mail.

And please don't use ann coulter's name in public. One's cedibility rating goes down 25 points anytime they use her as an example.
She is so much further to the right than ANY, ANY, Liberal is to the left.
She is total whacko nut job that needs a good beating more than anything else!
Even most right wingers with half a brain know she is off the charts crazy.

I'd rather be a godless stanistc canibalistic aethist than have anything to do with her, other than sticking her face in a toliet.


Sorry, got a bit carried away for a minute. Actually looking on what I wrote I have nothing to change.

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karma_carpentry

Oh boy, I'm sorry I started another left-right battle. I just had a very weird day that seemed to put some things in perspective, or else knock them out of perspective - I can't tell which - and I felt like sharing it.

I didn't mean mislead people to think that his son was in that casket. By the way, he has the casket draped in a spotless US Flag, and he has his son's boots on the roof, polished to a blinding sheen, and his dog tags. He has a sign saying "Veterans, thank you for your service" in his front window.

Last month he went to a military base in California to meet others in his son Alex's platoon, and he met the platoon commander, who got tears in his eyes while saying he's real sorry he lost Carlos' son. He lost two in his platoon. The platoon were all touched that Carlos made the trip there. They said nobody else has done that. They were honored to meet him, and told him more stories about his son's bravery in action.

I think Carlos is doing this protest for himself, not in his son's name. He never tries to speak for his son, but only from his own sacrifice of losing his son.

I knew Carlos for 2 years before his son died, and he was always a super genuine and honorable person. I think something snapped in him when his son died, but I can't say I wouldn't have snapped in the same way. I can't judge it to be wrong or right. I do admire him for the conviction of his beliefs.

I'm not trying to prove anything for the left or for the right. This is just how life is for some people, and I felt inspired to write about it. I could have happened to know someone who went super-patriotic and lined up behind George Bush when his son was killed.

Last year another friend of mine was blown up in a car bomb in Iraq. I blame the insurgents for that, not the U.S. The U.S. opened up a Pandora's box, let a genie out of the bottle, and is having a heck of a time putting it back in. But the U.S. isn't the genie itself. The administration may have made a lot of mistakes, some pretty critical. But still, the U.S. isn't the root cause of the conflict. I just wish we didn't have to be so involved to the point where we actually made ourselves responsible.

Something tells me if carpenters were in office, they would have said "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "Measure twice, go to war once." Something to be said for that kind of wisdom.

Anyway, I'm sorry to ignite this fire, because this is supposed to be a contractor's board. Next time I need a political fix I'll read Slate.com or something, and come to this board to ask about raised panels, Azek, and to gripe about bad clients.