No Wonder I'm Scared Of The Handyman's Of The World

WNYcarpenter

I was able to get a drivers liscense when I was 16, I took 8 hours or something in class and 8 in the car....I can't remeber, but unless you were a complete idiot you had your liscense relatively easy.

Yeah I can drive, we all think we can.......There's so many F'd up drivers out there I can't believe they have liscenses! I think I'm an excellent driver....Just because you can do it doesn't mean you can do it well.

You might have your 3500 with a 20' trailer and the HO and your crew is awed by your manueverability, great.... people are backing dual trailers with a Tractor-trailer within inches of a loading dock!

When you think you are good, think again 'cause someone can always do it better!

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"I knew I lost my wallet as soon as I threw my pants over the fence". -'lil jarhead bro when asking for a wire transfer...

BCConstruction

Well how do your comparissons work. when if you say Painting a custom 6000 square foot home with cathedral ceilings, multiple shades, protections, wood work etc... is compared to wiring a house!!!

I would say thats a pretty advanced job and wouldnt be anything like a house wireing. I would say thats more along the lines of wireing or plumbing a nuclear power station. What you dont realise is anyone can tape a window but not anyone can solder copper or use wire nuts. The worst that couldnt happen with masking your windows would be a bad mask. Now if someone done a wire join badly or a soldered gas line badly your talking a lot worse outcome and maybe death. Your comparisons are as pointless as my nuclear power station one.

IHI

The guy that built this house "knew" what he was doing too knew how to use a level, new how to read a tape, and knew how to cut a straight line....and yet, there we were in the middle of fixing more phuck up's that i ever dreamed possible on one property

8yr old house




no building wrap at all, guess it was needed either


any schmoe can build a deck huh??



I got ALOT more and a vid that shows water coming out of the walls when we removed the new construct windows that trapped water in the rough openings and ran out like a faucet when we pulled back the nailing fin that was'nt flashed, was'nt even caulked in!!!!!

Workin on houses is easy, so long as you can read a tape and cut a straight line.....yeah right

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BCConstruction

It dont even look like he could cut a straight line to be honest.

IHI

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woodchuck2

IMO everyone should have training of some sort and i am all for hands on training. One should not just go out and buy the tools of a trade and then start a business just because they beleive they know how to do the trade. I have had my hands in alot of trades through the years and i chose the one i had the most experience in and was the most comfortable with. I have bought tools for every trade i have ever been in and i know i can fall back on several of those trades if i ever had too. BUT some of these other trades i just chalk up as life experiences and i may use that knowledge to make life easier for me or to save money but never do again as a profession. One thing for sure, there will always be professionals and there will be hacks.

Mike Finley

I slept in a Holiday Inn last night, I think I will go be a mason, don't seem too hard, just take that sticky stuff and put rocks on top of each other. They sell that sticky stuff to anybody who wants it, I saw it down at the Home Depot one time.

I also had a Lego set when I was a kid, so I'm guessing ICFs would not be much of a problem either.

By the way, I'm glad you think wiring a house is such a simple task. Kind of crazy to require a license and all for just running some of that plastic stuff with wires in it in and out of those wooden stick things and into that square box thing on the back of the house.

cabinet runner

I have never had any dealings with handymen though I certainly could see why some homeowners need that type of service . It also sounds like alot of the problems arise when these types of businesses go from minor repairs to jobs where a specialized contractor should be called in .

I have however been around some very talented punch out men .I guess i consider them they handymen of the new construction biz .

These guys had alot of knowledge about many trades and at inspection or settlement time they would jump in and perform various tasks at a high skill level .

I think these types would make great handymen if they chose to . Then again they have had ALOT of on the job training which I think is the point of this discussion .

JumboJack

I think some handymen get started because they are...well,handy,mostly around their own house.They can replace a door knob,rebuild a broken gate,fix a squeak here and there,install a new faucet.So they think "Hey,I'm going to start my own handyman business."And they start making a little scratch doing little jobs here and there...
Then they wonder why they are not making any money hanging pictures for little old ladies or painting a bathroom for 20.00 an hour.

So they want to start doing bigger jobs.That's where the trouble can start.Chances are they have never been on a job site before and never even seen how a wall/header is framed,how floor joists are laid out,how rough plumbing works,how a footing is poured and a million other things.Much less DONE any of those kinds of thing.

But some fool will ask them to do a small room addition,remodel their kitchen,fix their koi pond and they think "Sure I can do that,I watch DIY network."

I have seen guy's like this "handywork" many times...I once saw a trap on a bathroom sink installed sideways...
That's all I got...

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber

BCConstruction

Mike just because you ain't got the skills to try and be good at things you have never done then it don't mean that nobody else has. I taught my self how to windsurf to competition level and come second in the UKWA championships. Guess i should have had tuition and come first! I guess The numerous bathrooms i have tiled should all be torn out because they ain't at the level of a master tile setter or perhaps the hundreds of walls i painted should be redone because they ain't at the level of the 16th chapel! Come on Mike you gotta be realistic here. I'm not saying I'm at them kind of levels but for what i and many people do in HO homes has not got to be anywhere near the level your talking. If they want that kind of level then they can pay someone for it. You sound like a keyboard commando. Perhaps you should get out on site more and then you may realize you can do some of this stuff you have never tried.

ARI001

ARI001

I'm big on continuing education and learning new things or relearning old things. This is sometimes accomplished on the job and other times in the classroom or by participating in workshops. I also beleive if your end goal is to build homes, do commercial development, or perform large remodels and additions you should familiarize yourself with the basics of all trade work required to complete the project. Note I said familiarize, not perform the individual trades on the customers dime or put the general safety of the public at risk by performing work you have no formal training in and are not licensed to do. That said; I agree completely that if you have never been on a professional crew or done your time apprenticing in your chosen trade you are working at a disadvantage. There is no accounting for proper training and real world experience from someone who has been doing their respective trade for most of their lives and acquired a great deal of knowledge and experience. This is how you learn what not to do and why, as well as what to do and why.

SelfContract

I once saw a trap on a bathroom sink installed sideways...
That's all I got...


That's right.. that person must had think that... "why there is a letter U formed on the pipe"?... it's so confused to him so then he turned and installed sideway as letter "S".. for better remembrance??

J F

[quote=IHI;757592]The guy that built this house "knew" what he was doing too knew how to use a level, new how to read a tape, and knew how to cut a straight line....

Nice portfolio josh, you should be proud...

J F

I've seen crown installed upside down, casing installed inside out...stuff that just makes you shake your head.

Mike Finley

No but as usual you are making your assumptions that learning by doing instead of apprenticeship serves 100% of the contractor community, because you are basing it on your personal experiences. There is a world of work beyond what is in front of your nose.

If all you do is a low level of routine work, well so be it, nothing wrong with that. But don't ignore the fact there may be work going on everyday on this planet that might be above and beyond maybe what you are experiencing. That's the gist of it.
I've given you a dozen examples, so here we go again.

Installing anderson paint grade casing on a door is at a different skill level then installing a stain grade boxed ceiling.





According to you though it's just trim. And according to you it should be no problem as long as you can read a tape.

I think you should stop taking it so personally that there maybe different levels of construction going on and for a second think about it logically just one time. It boils down to this:

There are many different levels of difficulty to every facet of construction and every trade.

For whatever reason you want to pretend there is not.

According to you as long as a guy is capable of setting tile like this every day :



He could just as easily do this tile job:



According to what you keep trying to argue -

That's why it's absolutely absurd to make statements like that unless you preface them first.

"For just general, basic skills, nuts and bolts, general bread and butter simple jobs ..."

Then you're probably on to something.

Mike Finley

Exactly right. Anybody who has ever hired an employee knows this for the truth.

There is about a billion % difference between somebody who has only been self-taught and somebody who has worked on construction crews and apprenticed.

It's absolutely un-arguable unless you have no experience actually hiring somebody.

The experienced apprenticed individual brings to the table if nothing more at least polished proven and time tested basic skills that are universal in the construction field the other guy brings about 20 years of bad habits and translations of f**ked up ways of doing things.

Anybody who has hired employees has seen this repeated over and over again.

21gun

Mike f: i really think i see where you're going with all of this....97 cent tile from lowes versus michael angelo... granted the guy layin lowes tile probally should go landing any work from the catholic chapels... dont think that'll ever be a problem. Guys should know their limitations. That's just a responsible way to do business. I think MikeF sounds like a great craftsman...prob does great work and makes great money too. Can prob do things i cant and wont...But face it Mike, we both need to make money... and some of the people i work for probably cant afford you. I wotk for poor folks like me. I used to make great money roofing... now i'm johhny on the spot and i'll do anything i feel i can handle. I think the quality has to be good no matter what the price for labor. and i hold my self to a higher standard than most. It just always sounds like some guys on this site have a hatred for the handyman. i hate s**tty work as much as the next guy and hate even more the A**holes that run off with HO money... those guys have no right calling theirselves tradesmen.

at the end of the day, i will be a handy man. At the end of the day, mike will still be the chief toilet mover, MZ will still be MZ and the rest... What i dont understand is how anyone thinks miles of posts will ever change that. I guess ultimately Mike would just like for everyone to be the best at what they do. That's admireable. i would love for everyone to do a good job too. I still feel like this site is hard on the handyman. I think i will start callin what i do something else like, let's say, "HOME REPAIR TECHNICIAN" go get my self some college books and a tutor, sell my old 93 ford one ton van, go buy a new diesel 4x4, get some high dollar vinyl lettering and upgrade my insurance to that of a GC and start charging $100.00 per man hour and wait for the jobs to roll on in. Oh, and i forgot, i'll need to bash everyone that doesnt do it like i do it.

I didnt start out as a handyman, i started out as a roofer, i guess i should not have gotten out of it because of a bad back injury, but i had to. Now this is what pays the bills. And i'm not about to feel bad about what i do to fend for my family, just because someone else has had better luck at doing the big jobs.

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No sir... that spells CARPENTER.

BCConstruction

Well Mike next time i get asked to do a floor like above. I will be sure to tell them that they should get a master tile fiter. But again like i said lets be realistic Mike. I have been trained as a Plumb and spark but i wouldnt go out of my depth and plumb in a water treatment works or a nuclear power station as these kind of jobs are on different leagues. Im not saying there not very skill full people of each trade, because there clearly are but when doing 99.9% of HO homes your not going to be asked to do a floor like above. I have not come across one bathroom in the years i been doing this trade where it has been a better quality of work than what i do. There are people about who can do it better im sure as im not saying im the best.

With your thinking i should stop doing all the work i do and just plumb in boilers and batrooms and leave the rest to the best of the best. If you have tilers who can tile like above then good for you as im sure your paying some lovely prices but i will stick to doing my own batroom and kitchen floors my self.

JumboJack

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in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber