Climate Change - My Position

 
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:39 PM   #121
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


If someone could tell me when it's going to start warming up North please let me know.

I'll go on record, I am in favor of global warming


http://www.contractortalk.com/f22/si...-again-117490/


I had a guy tell me that the weather is cooler because the globe is warming?
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:07 AM   #122
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


Alfred Hitchcock had a great way of making a movie. He always wanted a "MacGuffin", What's a MacGuffin? It what lets every thing else happen, like the lost ark in "Tomb Raiders". Whether it's "climate change", "global warming", "AGW", or whatever, it's the MacGuffin that gets the research funding flowing through the universities and various government agencies, "environmentalists" a talking point (or several) for doing away with all that bad stuff, politicians cover for introducing new legislation, the social equality folks another example of economic injustice, yada, yada, yada.

And to think it all started when the UN wanted to skim some money from "rich nations" (US) and give it to poor nations by chartering the IPCC to find that the oceans were rising, leading to all kinds of calamity across the world, particularly for island nations. Why, the people responsible (US) would have to make some kind of reparations for it. OK, so that angle didn't pan out, but given enough monkeys enough time and government funding, some angle will turn up. And here we are.

While much of the underlying problems with "climate science" fall in the category of sophisticated esoterica, the fact that detailed predictions can't be made and then validated shows that whatever understanding they claim to have achieved, it isn't useful in the real world.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:24 AM   #123
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrider_chgo View Post
4. It would not be prudent to take steps to proactively plan for and adapt to the warmer temperatures. We should wait until temperature-induced problems actually occur, and then react to them.
I know what I'll do if it gets 5 degrees hotter in the summer here or 5 degrees cooler - I imagine most people could answer that question if you ask them. I also know what I'd do if there was twice as much rainfall or half as much. If you don't know the answers to these basic questions (and the answers are really very simple), then I guess you haven't thought about it seriously for 15 minutes. If you know what you'd do, why the heck is there some big problem? Do you think everyone is too stupid and incapable of making their own adjustments to temperature and rainfall? Even cavemen could do this, it isn't rocket science and it isn't new.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:31 AM   #124
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrider_chgo View Post
So if I understand, your position is:

1. Global warming IS really happening. (Temperatures are getting warmer, and glaciers and ice caps are melting).
As part of a natural cycle that has more to do with the sun and other environmental factors that we do not control than ill-placed temperature measuring equipment biasing the data (IOW - UN-scientific), not because it is "human caused"... if we have ANY influence I would argue it is offset by natural cycles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrider_chgo View Post
2. We don't know what is causing it, but it definitely isn't caused by the increase in greenhouse gases, as the scientists claim. It just happens periodically, and there is no way to know why.
Your challenge with this is that it doesn't explain how we went from a "coming ice age" to "global warming" in a matter of a couple of years... and last year we broke records with cold, this year warm... there is no "constant" in the earth's climate. It ALWAYS changes... that's why we had the dust-bowls in the 1930's and the glaciers were retreating FASTER than today (despite all the CO2 since then) to having them advance again to the point where we had a "coming ice age" to having them retreating again...

Consider... why are all the climate models wrong? Why have pretty much all the dire predictions, whether cooling or warming not come to pass? But FUNDING has increased DRAMATICALLY...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrider_chgo View Post
3. Since we don't know why it happens, there is no way to stop it or slow it down, even if we wanted to.
Unless you can figure out how to change the sun, the clouds (which are PRIMARILY affected by the sun and affect the temps with cover and rainfall), the wind, the changing axis of the earth, the ocean currents, etc.... ALL of which I would argue have more of an effect on the temps than .04% of CO2 in the atmosphere. I would then argue that CO2 is FOOD for the very green our planet needs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrider_chgo View Post
4. It would not be prudent to take steps to proactively plan for and adapt to the warmer temperatures. We should wait until temperature-induced problems actually occur, and then react to them.
Well, considering that the temperature-induced problems don't seem to be occurring despite two different climate models (i.e. - ice age and warming), I am wondering why you don't question the premise?

Consider this on sea-levels rising... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...ever-told.html

From the article... "But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story."

"The reason why Dr Mörner, formerly a Stockholm professor, is so certain that these claims about sea level rise are 100 per cent wrong is that they are all based on computer model predictions, whereas his findings are based on "going into the field to observe what is actually happening in the real world"."

"When running the International Commission on Sea Level Change, he launched a special project on the Maldives, whose leaders have for 20 years been calling for vast sums of international aid to stave off disaster. Six times he and his expert team visited the islands, to confirm that the sea has not risen for half a century. Before announcing his findings, he offered to show the inhabitants a film explaining why they had nothing to worry about. The government refused to let it be shown."


Now ask yourself... WHY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdrider_chgo View Post
Is that an accurate representation of your position?
Just like with human-made global warming, on the surface, yes, but when you dig deeper, no...

Last edited by KAP; 08-07-2012 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:48 AM   #125
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


No matter what is done or said, Mother Nature will take it's course and eventually we all end up in the same place, so fellas enjoy it while you can
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:57 AM   #126
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


can't you tell they are enjoying it Greg?...you know..they like arguing for some strange reason
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:03 AM   #127
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


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can't you tell they are enjoying it Greg?...you know..they like arguing for some strange reason
Gotta' give you something to read and quip on Mr. Tom...
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:46 AM   #128
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


For the sake of discussion here, let's say that as humans we ARE causing all of the crap that environmentalist claim we are causing- I have to ask, WHY are they going after the regular guys like you and me?

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I don't own a chemical plant, I don't own an oil refinery, and I certainly don't own a sewer system or treatment plant. I don't manufacture plastic bags, styrofoam burger containers, or water bottles.

They want me to stop using this stuff but they won't tell them to stop making it.

At the gas station I have 2 choices- Gas or diesel. At the dealership, I get the same 2 choices. They want me to feel bad about driving my car but they don't ever try to make the oil companies feel bad about producing fuels that pollute.

And what makes all of this even more hypocritical is that as much as these tree huggers want everyone to drive an electric car, if you ask them if it's OK for an ambulance, firetruck, or other emergency first-responder vehicles to run on "alternative fuel sources".. especially during a major emergency, they throw all of that environmentalist stuff out the window.

They might not admit it but I bet if they had to choose between an airplane that ran on gasoline or jet fuel and one that used hybrid technology, they would want to get on the one with jet fuel in the blink of an eye.

If your house is burning down, fireman Fred is on the way- WAIT! He's gotta plug the truck in and let it charge up!
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:22 AM   #129
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


How bad is millions of spent battery cells for the environment?


Have you seen how big they are?
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:37 AM   #130
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


ever see the polar bear photo they try and use to show you the poor polar bears have no place to live and are gonna drown?

It's totally false.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #131
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


Polar bears do indeed die on icebergs. It's a very common occurrence. But not any less common than zebras that get eaten by lions or mountain goats that walk off of the edge of a steep cliff.

Simply, these poor polar bears ride an iceberg out to the middle of the ocean where the fishing is better, they jump in the water, and then when they get done eating their fill, they are too tired, too wet and too heavy to get back on the iceberg.. and they are too far away from the polar cap to swim back on their own.

Then that leaves plenty of food for the king crab and lobster to eat.

It's all part of the natural life cycle. Animals that don't have predators die from naturally occurring environmental factors.

But one thing is for sure- They didn't die from global warming.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:40 PM   #132
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


like to quip..
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:55 PM   #133
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedanderson
Polar bears do indeed die on icebergs. It's a very common occurrence. But not any less common than zebras that get eaten by lions or mountain goats that walk off of the edge of a steep cliff.

Simply, these poor polar bears ride an iceberg out to the middle of the ocean where the fishing is better, they jump in the water, and then when they get done eating their fill, they are too tired, too wet and too heavy to get back on the iceberg.. and they are too far away from the polar cap to swim back on their own.

Then that leaves plenty of food for the king crab and lobster to eat.

It's all part of the natural life cycle. Animals that don't have predators die from naturally occurring environmental factors.

But one thing is for sure- They didn't die from global warming.
How does a polar bear that "dies on an ice berg", die, when he's too wet, too tired, too heavy, too get back on the ice berg? Sounds like, the only time science is beneficial, is when is supports an principal that some of you all believe in.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:59 PM   #134
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


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ever see the polar bear photo they try and use to show you the poor polar bears have no place to live and are gonna drown?

It's totally false.
and you know because....?
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:04 PM   #135
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


your all missing a major point of the climate change argument. its not only tea party insider news that the climate changes without our impact... the whole point is that we need to create ways to live with the changes and our impact is making the process faster than we can keep up with.

it amazes me that you people don't care that fossil fuels are bad for everyone all the time. your still dodging the issues.

this is obviously a downward spiral conversation but for gods sake... you guys...

i'll be leaving you old heads in the dust when i'm building passive solar house after passive solar house for people that know theres a better way.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:21 PM   #136
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


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Originally Posted by duburban View Post
your all missing a major point of the climate change argument. its not only tea party insider news that the climate changes without our impact... the whole point is that we need to create ways to live with the changes and our impact is making the process faster than we can keep up with.

it amazes me that you people don't care that fossil fuels are bad for everyone all the time. your still dodging the issues.

this is obviously a downward spiral conversation but for gods sake... you guys...

i'll be leaving you old heads in the dust when i'm building passive solar house after passive solar house for people that know theres a better way.
I think if your going to build a passive house using solar power, you will probably be the one left in the dust. We worked on a passive house last year. They did not use any solar due to the poor return on investment.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:22 PM   #137
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


and who do you think your calling ''you people''?...don't make me quip you till you cry
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #138
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I think if your going to build a passive house using solar power, you will probably be the one left in the dust. We worked on a passive house last year. They did not use any solar due to the poor return on investment.
someone F'd up that house, i hope it wasn't you. return on investment?! zero energy usage isn't a good return?...
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:28 PM   #139
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and who do you think your calling ''you people''?...don't make me quip you till you cry
Tom, you, you people that refuse to imagine a better way to do things. Thats who, you.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:29 PM   #140
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Re: Climate Change - My Position


I spent years living and working with PHd environmental researchers. i'm in my camp yes, you in yours and life goes on. hot cold whatever.

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