Per diem for crew on long-distance jobs? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

AdminFauxPaint · 03-18-2008, 11:58 PM

Has anyone ever done a job where you put your crew up in a hotel?

We are in very preliminary discussions for a 5-7 day project that is a full days drive from our base. At this point we are thinking a crew of 4, plus the boss/foreman.

Anyone have experience taking a crew on the road (vs finding & hiring high-skilled local crew you have never worked with)?

Looking for any advice including travel rates, per diems, mark-up rates for the hotel & travel time* etc)

*(When we travel an hour or two for a project, we tend to cut our markup rates on the time, otherwise we get beat hard by a local bidder).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Chris Johnson · 03-19-2008, 12:27 AM

I travel for a few projects each year.

For hotel I figure $ 100.00 per night, 3 guys per room. (We're not staying at the Hilton, but this covers America's Best)

Meals I give them $ 25.00 per day for food.

I usually buy dinner (pizza) on Friday night if we head back home Friday night, if we work the Saturday I buy breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I do not pay travel, it is the guys responsibility to get to the job, I will drive them there with me, if we bring my truck and one of the guys brings theirs I will cover his fuel since I am usually loaded and my truck is pretty full.

Are you chasing these jobs or are they coming to you? I ask cause I want to know why you are reducing your mark-up.

AdminFauxPaint · 03-19-2008, 01:45 AM

>" travel for a few projects each year. For hotel I figure $ 100.00 per night, 3 guys per room. (We're not staying at the Hilton, but this covers America's Best) Meals I give them $ 25.00 per day for food.<

Do you mark those costs up?

>I usually buy dinner (pizza) on Friday night if we head back home Friday night, if we work the Saturday I buy breakfast, lunch and dinner.<

sounds reasonable.

"I do not pay travel, it is the guys responsibility to get to the job, I will drive them there with me, if we bring my truck and one of the guys brings theirs I will cover his fuel since I am usually loaded and my truck is pretty full."

No travel $ for crew even for a full day of travel each way? I am not sure my guys will go for it without something for their time (when they aren't working for me, at least half of them have something else going on.)

"Are you chasing these jobs or are they coming to you? I ask cause I want to know why you are reducing your mark-up."

Right now out of town work comes to us, and very infrequently, so I guess I do have some leverage on the price, but we check out the competition in the area and they often seem near us in experience/price/availability, so it comes down to selling our aesthetic as well as matching/not coming in too far over what the market will bear.

Again, past experience has been an hour max from our base, so this is a bit of a trip for us if we get it.

Thanks, I appreciate your further details.

Chris Johnson · 03-19-2008, 09:31 AM

My markup is not a % for each line item, it varies, i.e. marking up concrete I cannot get 15%, the market won't bear that much since it is expensive enough as is, ICF's I can get a decent profit on as well as rebar, again expensive but usually a small enough quantity no one sees the markup amount. Like I said, $ 100.00 for hotel per night, cost is $ 65.00 plus taxes.

I have never travelled a full day, 1/2 day yes, I have a different relationship with my crew, they work with me, I work with them. They know I'm not being paid to travel, they don't expect it either, some are still partiers, if they are late once in a while I don't penalize them, I don't get mad when I get told at the last minute...ohh I need tomorrow off. Plus they are all happy to have a good paying job right now knowing their friends are either looking or have taken a reduction in wages.

Only one major rule in my company...miss pour day and you will be fired, no excuses excepted. Have only used that power once.

Kgmz · 03-19-2008, 08:55 PM

Has anyone ever done a job where you put your crew up in a hotel?

Yes many years ago we had a specialty where there were only a few companies in 3 states, so we did a lot of jobs where we traveled.

Anyone have experience taking a crew on the road (vs finding & hiring high-skilled local crew you have never worked with)?

I don't think you would want to hire a crew there, are they going to be as experienced, are they going to be able to do it your way, and on and on.

Looking for any advice including travel rates, per diems, mark-up rates for the hotel & travel time* etc)

Normally we only had to travel a half day and the morning was spent loading the trucks, etc. and then the afternoon was driving. So I paid them their normal wage. On trips that took a full day 8-10 hours, we usually had the trucks loaded the day before. And we had a lower rate than their normal wages for the drive since they were just driving and some of them were just passengers.

As for hotel, etc. We paid for the rooms, 2 per room since sometimes its hard to find a room that sleeps 3, unless someone gets the roll away and no one wants to sleep on that. We paid for breakfast and dinner and ate as a group, and the other reason for paying for breakfast was to make sure everyone was there and ready. Lunch was on them since if we were home they got their own lunch and this was not any different. As for the drive there and back everyone rode in company trucks, usually a couple of flatbeds carrying the product, and a pickup and van with the tools, etc.

nap · 03-19-2008, 10:19 PM

you might want to check federal and state laws as to travel time. In some situations it is legally required to be paid.

thom · 03-19-2008, 10:42 PM

I put the guys up, 2 to a room, I get my own room, I buy 3 meals daily, we work long hours when out of town.

The cost of hotel and meals and transportation is all included in the fixed price. I'll get hotel room costs ahead of time, round them up, figure $30 per man food per day, add it all up and bump it by 25%.

I hate out of town work. I bid it high enough to make it worthwhile.

IWork4Food · 03-19-2008, 11:53 PM

Anyone have experience working away from home? Yes. We are working on a 5 year project right now and I live in hotels 260-280 days a year. For you, a week or two out away from home may seem like a vacation, but for me it is a way of life for now. Heres our deal:
2 men to a room maximum for us. no exceptions. Remember, these guys have to work together and then live together too and the motel rooms are to small for 3 and I have probably stayed in 90% of the hotels out there.
I get $27/ day perdium. 7 days a week, no exceptions.
I get my full labor hour for drive time. I drive my own truck and pull a trailer.
I get $.37/ mile plus my drive time. I just made a 300 mile trip that cost me $.51/ mile in fuel, so that also eat some of the drive time before I made any extra. Look at this way: If you had the job at home, you would get a full days pay. If you have to drive a day to get to a jobsite, then you should still get at least 2/3 or full day, depending on how drive time works out. right? To me, it don't matter weather I was at home or not. A days pay is a days pay- weather working or driving. Compensation for being away from home.
If you can, get an extended stay type hotel. You will have a kitchen plus they offer wireless internet and laundry if you do your own. Better rate by the week.
Take your own crew. If you have time in them, they know the job, are experienced in the job, it is better to put them in hotels, pay drive time, etc. IMO. We have hired on the road before. The cost of time in training, the uncertainty if they will return the next day, the quality they will produce, the list goes on.
IMO, there is no such thing as price reduction to travel outside the home base for extensive periods of time. My rates go up then.
IMHO, it is no longer worth the expense of travel for work. I have been traveling for 10 years, and the expenses associated with it have become excessive. When this project is over, I'm done. period. Years ago, mileage alone always paid my truck payment and insurance plus I made extra from it. Now it is costing out of pocket.
Make it worth your time. make it worth your guys time. Like I said, if this is once in a blue moon deal, thats ok just to get out of town for a bit and see some different scenery, or perhaps to get away from the better half but do it regular like I do, it gets old-quick. hope this helps.

Exroadog · 03-22-2008, 09:08 AM

I used to be on the road more than at home. It can work a couple ways. Travel is usually so much a mile. Right now I think its 48 cents. Some paid hourly one way.
Food. Usually per diem for that area. You can find that on line. Except some jobs I have been put up in studio apartments. If there was a kitchen and you could cook meals....no per diem.
Its all different.
We normally got are own room but ocasionally doubled up. Jobs over a couple months usually got a 3 bd rm. corporate apartment or studio apartments.
When I figure this for my work I try to take care of everyone and get there own room, with kitchenette (no per diem), plane tickets, (couple if its a long job so to go see family once in a while) and one rental car.
Finding subs or employees on the road can always be tricky. You need half your crew at least but if using some locals I would add in extra time and money for the unknown.
I'm in CT. and travel if you ever need help.

JPF · 03-22-2008, 10:38 AM

Used to travel extensively, in the states and around the world, for the company i worked for before going on my own. They paid ALL expenses ( Car rental, gas, flights, lodging, materials, etc.) and $50.00 per diem domestic. Travel out of the country was between $75.00 and $90.00 per diem, depending, plus all the other stated expenses. Now this was a very niche high end industry (Custom Aquarium Systems) This is the company www.livingcolor.com and so the markup was pretty good. Oh yea, 1 man per room, as has been said, they figured you work with the other guy's for like 12-15 hrs a day on the road, you probably want to get away from them to relax unwind......