Upper Bath

woodlover

I am new to this but have been on the side lines for about 4 months.Looking for some info on any new products that I may not be aware of.I am a bath & kitchen remodeler in Wisconsin and I am in the middle of a bath remodel.Took a single bath and are in the process of making two bathrooms(jack & jill)I have get to heat to this new bath and have to bring a new heat duct from basement and that means cutting into first floor walls. Is there anything new that I can avoid ripping first floor walls apart?

rbsremodeling

Can you put in heated floors under the tile??

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Mike Finley

Do a search for "Cadet".

It's going to be a lot easier to run a 220 electrical line up there and a programmable thermostat.

EAE

Run into this problem all the time -- a heat mat under the tile is the way to go. You can run each mat on a dedicated 120v circuit, or you can gang them both off of a single thermostat depending on the footage. A single 32 sqft warm tiles mat draws something like 300 watts. Just make sure to insulate the crap out of it, especially the extr walls. The mat radiates 360 degrees, uninsulated your floor heat can be patchy and not get above 74 degrees (ask how I know). Properly insulated the mats get around 87 degrees, hook up a programable thermostat (we have looked and Menards has the best one @ $130).

We use Nuheat and Warm Tiles, depending on the budget. You can call both co's with dimensions and they will build a mat for you ($$$) or you can buy a roll of the stuff ($) and spend 2 hours laying it out and then skim coat it.

Almost all of the baths we do (in southern WI) lose the heat vents and get heated tiles and an inline heater for the whirlpool. If it is a big bath or old house we may spring for a heater in the fan.

This all started with a higher-end rental unit we did above a shop downtown. The lady's granddaughter was over and flooded the bathroom by not pulling the curtain all the way or some rubbish, all the water ran across the floor and down the heat duct into the shop. So we pulled the venting and dropped in a heat mat and new tile. Corners caulked, problem solved.


Jesus, chatty today.

Chris

Mike Finley

Under tile electric heat mats - I do realize that some of the manufacturers say you can use it (under the right circumstances) warmly yours has a pretty robust heat loss calculator I would recommend using if you were going to try this.

As a company policy we strictly sell under tile electric heating mats as a warm feet only product and not as a primary heat source. I just don't have the confidence nor the stomach to deal with the issues that arise with so many unknowns when it comes to putting trust in a customer's existing insulation properties of their house and a product that requires almost a perfect set of conditions to actually perform satisfactorily as a primary heat source.

Have some of you guys had good success with this? Especially in a place with winters as cold as Wisconsin?

Warmsmeallup

Mike:
We do them all the time. If a contractor calls us for a bathroom floor warming system that is also primary heat, we primarily use low voltage systems because we can "adjust" the amount of heat we put in the room by running the wires closer together and generate more watts per square foot to surpass the demand. When others are afraid to do it, we charge for it and deliver it.

In a primary heat installation a Heat Loss Calculation is manditory. There are several sites that let you perform them for free or there are programs you can buy that will perform a more precise number to work from. That's type of program we use because we want to guaranty the heat. Like you said, Mike, I don't ever want the call from a client saying, "I'm not warm enough and you said...". We've installed Zmesh in homes in the Berkshires of Mass. as primary heat throughout and it works beautifully. As an example, a new home we installed low voltage through out that is 3000sf cost our client $410. to heat the house in January this year @$0.179 per kilowatt hour. One of the highest rates in the nation. That's less than he paid last year for his oil fired 2700sf old home.

Radiant heat always goes to cold. So, if the floor is above a cold garage or unheated basement, for example, then you definitly need the insulation and, if possible, an aluminum foil barrier above the insulation. I won't guaranty it with out the two. Floor insulation isn't needed if the bathroom is above a heated living space. There's no heat loss there.

neolitic

Seems like you would need a pretty
large floor area for that to work.
I would have concerns about pipe freeze
in this climate....
The sealed fluid, electric baseboards
like Intertherm would be my
choice.

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EAE

We have had great luck with it here (near Madison, South WI). In a cold B/R we will spray the 2-part foam insulation in between studs and under the subfloor. We have also run the heat mat up the walls behind the wall tile for ~45", that seems to help.

Set the therm to heat up a few hours earlier in the winter months so when they walk out of their 'cold' bedroom/hallway the B/R is always warmer.

In this climate, most (newer) houses are plumbed in the interior walls to protect from freezing, if there is a concern, shoot foam.

Speaking of foam, probably off topic, but once the HO sees me whip out the canisters and seal the B/R up nice and snug like, I almost always get asked to foam their sill boxes, drilled holes/cracks, garage walls... sometimes it leads to a nice framing/foamin/sheetin project in the basement or garage. and they ALWAYS tell their friends about the cool insulation they have.

Nice referrals. And it is fun as hell to shoot the stuff.

I use the foam spray instead of fiberglas because that makes me itchy and bitchy. Costs more, but one $200 kit will either last a few jobs or lead to more work, where I figure it into the bid and pay for it. But hey, my not being miserable is worth the extra money, even if I don't get more work out of it...

Chris

Mike Finley

Sounds like you guys have this worked out really well.

EAE

We do a lot of bathrooms.

Thinking about bringing my tile sub on full time. He turns out to be a heck of a rough carpenter.

woodlover

thanks for your help guys,it's very much appreciated

ChrWright

I'm with you Mike. I try not to make any comfort guarantees based on radiant only. It's surprising though, how much warmer you feel when your feet are warm--even in a cold room.

My experience has been the 220v loose laid systems put out the most heat in the shortest amount of time (larger conductors, better whole room coverage). They're also the biggest PITA to install.

At K-BIS this year, there was a manufacturer with a mat system, 110v, that they claimed had the highest temp rating of any mat system manufacturer: 130 degress. (I'd have dig out their brochure to remember which one--it wasn't one I'd seen before.)

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Mike Finley

Yep, I hear ya.

These are the things we use. You can retrofit into a stud bay and combine them with a honeywell set back line voltage programable thermostat and have that bathroom toasty before you even wake up.

All you see with them is a register vent on the wall.

EAE

I like that.


Wheredoigetone?

Mike Finley

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