Sound Deadening?

 
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:32 AM   #1
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Sound Deadening?


I went out on an estimate Tuesday for a main bath and a master bath/bedroom remodel. The homeowner wants me to insulate all the interior walls of the bathrooms to help deaden those "restroom" noises. Any thoughts on the best way to do this? I was thinking just some good ole fiberglass will help, but is there anything out there better suited for this purpose? Thanks in advance for any help.

Jim
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:58 PM   #2
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Jim ,

Here is a product you may want to check out: QuietRock Serenity exceeds code and commercial requirements for both Sound Transmission Class (STC) and fire ratings. Made from gypsum and infused with proprietary viscoelastic polymers that convert noise and vibration to tiny amounts of silent heat, QuietRock Serenity provides unprecedented soundproofing for party walls and ceilings in new construction and rehab projects. QuietRock is 5/8" thick and uses the same framing as standard drywall. The assembly provides STC ratings of 51-68 and pulls 20-30 dB out of low frequencies -- ideal for projects adjacent to railroad lines, airports and highways as well as party walls.

Also the following link offers various techniques and the level of effective results for ea application.

http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/faq10b.html

I hope this helps.

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Old 12-07-2006, 07:25 PM   #3
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Quiet Rock (expensive) or double-thickness of regular drywall with a sound-proofing caulking used between the two layers. There is also a product called MLV (mass loaded vinyl), two different thicknesses,one about 1/8" or another about 1/4" thick (better) that would go up between the studs and the drywall. All of the above items will help a lot but any of these items will also help. This is what many home theater users are doing. Also throwing up some poly-wrapped fiberglass would do better than the kraft faced fiberglass. The poly wrap, even as thin as it is, will absorb the sound better than the kraft and it aids in being a moisture barrier as well, to keep moisture out of the fiberglass. John Mansville makes the poly-wrapped in the 32 ft. rolls of R-13. Everything else I find down here is kraft paper based.

Last edited by LennyV-NHSNOLA; 12-07-2006 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:22 PM   #4
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Re: Sound Deadening?


What I learned from a clever carpenter, and I've done a couple times around rest rooms, is to take drywall cutoffs and add layers in the stud bays of the partition. Cut them so they fit snug in the bays and affix with adhesive and basically use the adhesive as a caulk around the edges to close gaps where sound can transmit.

It doesn't sound real hi-tech, but what you need to do is add mass and this does the trick. You can do a couple layers of extra drywall in the 3 1/2" space - just around electrical boxes its a little tricky so you might want to stuff some mineral wool or fiberglass around there.

Also make sure the bathroom door bottom is a really tight fit to a straight raised threshold - like 1/16" gap over a marble threshold is nice. That helps too.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:32 PM   #5
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Re: Sound Deadening?


You know... the more I think about this, what exactly is happening in this bathroom? If it's just the "tinkle" splashing noise in the toilet, why not put a small water garden fountain decoration on the back of the toilet which would always make the splashing noise which would mask any added splashing noises.

Now if it's adult hanky-panky in the jacuzzi, that they are trying to keep the kids from hearing, then you better go with ALL of the sound-proofing measures listed above.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:46 PM   #6
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Tell the customer to give everyone outside the bathroom a pair of $1.99 ear plugs!

That should solve the problem...
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:11 PM   #7
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Re: Sound Deadening?


To really perform sound deadening, you have to understand what it is you are trying to accomplish. Some materials absorb only certain frequencies, and let other frequencies pass. More material isn't always the answer, how you install the material is important.

The other posters have suggested the new products that install exactly like drywall, only much more expensive. Some have suggested doubling the thickness of the drywall, which is only partially correct. One other poster suggested MLV, which is probably getting more "correct", but it does come in many thicknesses, and again, it starts to get costly.

Having had to deal with noise abatement problems, some of the theories are to isolate any sound transmission, which means that just slapping another piece of drywall does nothing because it will resonate to the rest of the materials.

What does work is to isolate the two walls by staggering the studs on a 2x6 header and footer having no stud share both sides of the walls. The wall is now wider. Also, if even more is needed, use 2 2x3's instead of a 2x6 and run a bead of silicon caulk between the 2x3's effectively isolating the boards. Cut away the overhanging edge of the 2x4 stud at the top and bottom so it does not touch the other 2x3. Interweave insulation horizontally between the studs if you want to. Also run a bead of silcon caulk on each stud, let it dry, then install the drywall. If you want to add an additional layer, be sure to run a bead of silicon caulk between the two sheets, isolating the two pieces of drywall. Drywall alone will resonate sound easily. You could use cork or felt strips instead of the bead of silicon caulk.

There are also metal clips that you can install on a double thickness wall, where the clips hold the second sheet of drywall away from the first one, again isolating the two pieces from each other.

Also, seal up all the outlet holes in the walls, as sound transfers through the holes.

What you have done is isolate all the components so they cannot transfer sound between the materials.

Add up the costs. You will use double the studs and drywall in one method, also figure for double labor. Or consider the MLV or the Quietrock costs and see which makes more sense.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:38 PM   #8
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Re: Sound Deadening?


I think for your purpose of trying to knock down some bathroom noise insulating the walls will be fine. If you want to go overboard try to pack as much insulation as you can in the wall. Insulation can and should be compressed for sound but not for r value. We always wrapped/ packed the pvc drain pipes for noise also.

Of course there are more sophisticated sound proof tecniques as mentioned but that would be really overboard for a bath in my opinion.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:31 AM   #9
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Wow! Tons of great suggestions guys. Thanks.

As far as what's going on in the bathroom, there concern is that the bathrooms are back to back, and right off two bedrooms and the dinning area. The bathrooms are basically centrally located. So if someone is in the can making some #2 "noises" , it can be heard at the dinner table. I will look into prices on these options and give them the differences. Although I think they will end up with the poly wrapped fiberglass idea. This is not a high end job, so they will most likely be scared by the price of the high tech sound deading materials. But I'm sure that the poly wrapped fiberglass and caulking the studs before the drywall goes up will be a nice improvement. Thanks again for all the great help.


Jim
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:26 PM   #10
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Re: Sound Deadening?


If it's just the "tinkle, tinkle, little star" noises, then I would go with the water garden decoration that would basically create a white noise effect so that the actual #2 noise would not be heard. Those self-contained water garden decorations run around $20.00. If the owner doesn't want that, then start figuring out the best alternative above.

Also, I recommended the double layer of drywall but I did say that sound-dampening caulking should be used between the layers to stop the resonation effect. That is the cheapest method and does raised the sound proofing value quite a bit.

Google for sound proofing walls and sound proofing caulk and read some of the "scientific studies" about this method.

Or put the water garden/fountain in the dining room so the constant splashing will white noise out the tinkling.

Last edited by LennyV-NHSNOLA; 12-08-2006 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:58 PM   #11
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Get an el-cheapo really noisy exhaust fan that is wired with the light switch. That will drowned all the other noise happening in there.
Anyway, to add to the other posts, I read an article somewhere that also said to be sure to caulk the bottom plate along the floor because noise will travel past that joint.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:30 PM   #12
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Re: Sound Deadening?


I usually escape this by suggesting insulation for boat engine rooms. One look at the price will usually get you out. It's great if you do high-end home theaters.

I've tried the QuietRock and QuietShield insulation a couple of times, worthless in my estimation. Cheap but noneffective.

Like Bryan said, there is no simple answer.
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:05 PM   #13
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Quote:
Originally Posted by QWIKWHIP View Post

The bathrooms are basically centrally located. So if someone is in the can making some #2 "noises" , it can be heard at the dinner table.

Jim
Wow.. must be some loud #2 noises. Tell the offensive offender to start taking Beano! And remember to tell them "No Farding" at the dinner table either! (No, I didn't spell it wrong, look up "Farding").
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:09 PM   #14
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Re: Sound Deadening?


The big issue is the door, generally. It's not sealed and there's a big gap underneath. The door is significantly inferior to even an un-insulated standard wall.

So for example, if the bath is the master bath, and we want to isolate the sound heard within the master bedroom, you have to deal with that door. It's really a waste to spend time & money on the walls without addressing the door. Your customer will be upset.

Water crashing noise can be alleviated with standard insulation (R13) and consider wrapping the PVC with Mass loaded vinyl (MLV).

That generally does the trick.
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:42 PM   #15
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Re: Sound Deadening?


2X6 top and bottom plates, with 2X4 staggered studs, R19 insulation in between.... that seems to be the latest craze for bathroom walls, judging from the homes I've wired over the past few years.
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:56 PM   #16
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Weaver View Post
To really perform sound deadening, you have to understand what it is you are trying to accomplish. Some materials absorb only certain frequencies, and let other frequencies pass. More material isn't always the answer, how you install the material is important.

The other posters have suggested the new products that install exactly like drywall, only much more expensive. Some have suggested doubling the thickness of the drywall, which is only partially correct. One other poster suggested MLV, which is probably getting more "correct", but it does come in many thicknesses, and again, it starts to get costly.

Having had to deal with noise abatement problems, some of the theories are to isolate any sound transmission, which means that just slapping another piece of drywall does nothing because it will resonate to the rest of the materials.

What does work is to isolate the two walls by staggering the studs on a 2x6 header and footer having no stud share both sides of the walls. The wall is now wider. Also, if even more is needed, use 2 2x3's instead of a 2x6 and run a bead of silicon caulk between the 2x3's effectively isolating the boards. Cut away the overhanging edge of the 2x4 stud at the top and bottom so it does not touch the other 2x3. Interweave insulation horizontally between the studs if you want to. Also run a bead of silcon caulk on each stud, let it dry, then install the drywall. If you want to add an additional layer, be sure to run a bead of silicon caulk between the two sheets, isolating the two pieces of drywall. Drywall alone will resonate sound easily. You could use cork or felt strips instead of the bead of silicon caulk.

There are also metal clips that you can install on a double thickness wall, where the clips hold the second sheet of drywall away from the first one, again isolating the two pieces from each other.

Also, seal up all the outlet holes in the walls, as sound transfers through the holes.

What you have done is isolate all the components so they cannot transfer sound between the materials.

Add up the costs. You will use double the studs and drywall in one method, also figure for double labor. Or consider the MLV or the Quietrock costs and see which makes more sense.
Bingo! Building a (floating) room inside a room is the best way to eliminate crossover noise, though only lead can stop really low tones (like a loud, amplified bass guitar). But anyone who's tried to soundproof a studio can tell you that most building materials conduct sound well - the trick is to add air/empty space.

A recent edition of Fine Homebuilding addressed this very topic. Here's the link: http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...fh_184_055.asp
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Old 02-05-2007, 04:49 PM   #17
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Re: Sound Deadening?


I believe Certainteed makes a sound deadening insulation, but on a 2x4 stud wall you can rock one side and force R19 in it. That will compact enough to deaden any sound that a bathroom could possibly make. If any one is any louder than that in a bathroom, they should maybe see a doctor.
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Old 02-05-2007, 05:49 PM   #18
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Quote:
Originally Posted by James Boyd View Post
The big issue is the door, generally. It's not sealed and there's a big gap underneath. The door is significantly inferior to even an un-insulated standard wall.
You're right, I never thought about it in this case. I wonder if you could add a sweep.

Last edited by Chris G; 02-05-2007 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Your is not the same as you're.
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:04 AM   #19
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Re: Sound Deadening?


I just installed recycled denim in a project. The material fills the cavities between the studs with no paper. it immediately seemed to absorb both the outside and inside sounds.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:48 AM   #20
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Re: Sound Deadening?


Replace those hollow core doors with solid ones. As already mentioned, a sweep can possibly added to the bottom of the door - one with the multiple plastic ribs that can be trimmed. They aren't all that noticeable if done correctly. You can do a fiberglass drill and fill into the existing walls to cut back the noise quite a bit. Foam in the electric boxes and plumbing penetrations - air sealing cuts down on sound transmission.

In a finished normal full bath with tub and wall set, you usually have a big floor penetration for the bath drain. Lots of sound can get down through there.

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