 |
12-17-2008, 01:20 PM
|
#1
|
|
Member
Trade:
Residential & Commercial Remodeling / Roofing
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 40
|
Replacing stair treads
We will be replacing stair treads for a client on an exterior, spiral staircase. The plan is to use AZEK boards (plastic as opposed to a composite like Trex). Simple enough, right?
Well, here is the rub: The customer is dead set on using a butt-joint/rub-joint on the long edges (he is a hobbyist carpenter), with the goal of having a cleaner look.
I have explained to him the expansion/contraction properties of this material, and the need for drainage because of encapsulated stringers.
He doesn't care. He doesn't think the boards will expand & contract that much.
Since this is an add-on to a current remodel (and he is a good customer) I want to do it, but I am worried about the warranty side.
Anybody have advice or experience with AZEK boards? Am I just over-worrying about this?
Thanks.
|
|
|
Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury
or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!
Join the #1 Contractor Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
ContractorTalk.com - Are you a Professional Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for contractors to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your trade is you'll find that ContractorTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!
Join ContractorTalk.com - Click Here

|
12-17-2008, 01:24 PM
|
#2
|
|
Super B
Trade:
General Contractor Lic. since 1984
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,903
|
Letting the customer tell you how to do your job is a recipe for disaster.
|
|
|
12-17-2008, 01:27 PM
|
#3
|
|
Member
Trade:
Residential & Commercial Remodeling / Roofing
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 40
|
He is not telling me how to do my job. Either I decide to do it, or I don't.
|
|
|
12-19-2008, 11:12 PM
|
#4
|
|
Registered User
Trade:
Craftsman Unlimited Incorporated
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Marietta
Posts: 1
|
As a business owner, you should be concerned with warranty issues as they may arise. To start off right you should set the expectation that you are not familiar with this product and its actual expansion and contraction issues. This is still a fairly new product and should be tested in the field more to give a more quantitative answer. In statistics when there is a set of variables with no real data points to compare against this is considered not enough information to base an answer on. So for the stair treads you need to make clear in writing and get it sighned, that you are not the manufacturer and should not be held liable for using the product in a manner that might void manifacturers warranty.
You need to protect yourself for all cases. Even a good customer can go bad.
|
|
|
12-20-2008, 07:27 AM
|
#5
|
|
Curmudgeon
Trade:
carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do"
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool"
Posts: 10,151
|
Take a good look at the installation
PDF on the Azek site.
It won't span more than 16" oc,
and they want solid blocking
under the joints for treads.
If you can't meet those conditions
it won't fly.
This stuff isn't really structural.
__________________
Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)
|
|
|
12-20-2008, 08:29 AM
|
#6
|
|
Pro
Trade:
LI,NY designer, new homes, renovation work, concre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,162
|
If you need the work, have the HO sign off on the installation details that he is insisting on. His request will surely cause problems down the road. G
__________________
|
|
|
12-20-2008, 01:46 PM
|
#7
|
|
Thom
Trade:
General Contractor/Homebuilder
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 1,929
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by genecarp
If you need the work, have the HO sign off on the installation details that he is insisting on. His request will surely cause problems down the road. G
|
Signing off by the HO is meaningless. The contractor is considered the professional, the HO is considered ignorant (and probably is). Nothing the homeowner signs or agrees to relieves the professional from his responsibilities. Those responsibilities include: meeting minimum code requirements, following manufacturers instructions/recommendations, delivering a product in a workmenlike manner.
|
|
|
12-20-2008, 03:03 PM
|
#8
|
|
Al Smith
Trade:
Home Improvement contractor since 1983, In building field since 1974, Licensed
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South River NJ
Posts: 2,145
|
If someone gets hurt on those stairs will your waiver hold up in court and pay for your defense?
|
|
|
12-22-2008, 11:14 PM
|
#9
|
|
Pro
Trade:
Repair/Remodel
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 544
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom
Signing off by the HO is meaningless. The contractor is considered the professional, the HO is considered ignorant (and probably is). Nothing the homeowner signs or agrees to relieves the professional from his responsibilities. Those responsibilities include: meeting minimum code requirements, following manufacturers instructions/recommendations, delivering a product in a workmenlike manner.
|
That just doesn't sound right. It seems to me you should be able to do a job and say "Hey I can't guarantee this". I'd ask a construction law attorney in the area.
|
|
|
12-23-2008, 12:06 AM
|
#10
|
|
Thom
Trade:
General Contractor/Homebuilder
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 1,929
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennMacMoragh
That just doesn't sound right. It seems to me you should be able to do a job and say "Hey I can't guarantee this". I'd ask a construction law attorney in the area.
|
go ask your attorney. Some of us have been there.
Many businesses use waivers all the time. I'm a scuba diver. Every dive operation has every customer sign a waiver. They don't hold up in court. I'm a balloonist. Every balloonist has every rider sign a waiver, they don't hold up in court either. A customer cannot sign away his right to sue you for not doing things properly. The law doesn't allow that so the waiver will not hold up.
Beyond that, code requires you to follow manufacturers recommendations. If you don't follow those recommendations you are violating building code. The statute of limitations on that starts running when the violation is discovered. You could be held responsible by a subsequent owner. You could be held responsible by a visitor who slips or a child or ......
|
|
|
12-23-2008, 01:32 AM
|
#11
|
|
Member
Trade:
Residential & Commercial Remodeling / Roofing
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 40
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by neolitic
Take a good look at the installation
PDF on the Azek site.
It won't span more than 16" oc,
and they want solid blocking
under the joints for treads.
If you can't meet those conditions
it won't fly.
This stuff isn't really structural.
|
Neolitic -- thanks, this is what I was looking for.
Good stuff all, Thanks for all the advice...
|
|
|
12-23-2008, 07:24 AM
|
#12
|
|
Pro
Trade:
Remodel / repairs / Certified Mold inspector, Remediator
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 360
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom
Signing off by the HO is meaningless. The contractor is considered the professional, the HO is considered ignorant (and probably is). Nothing the homeowner signs or agrees to relieves the professional from his responsibilities. Those responsibilities include: meeting minimum code requirements, following manufacturers instructions/recommendations, delivering a product in a workmenlike manner.
|
This is so true & what I try to politely explain to so many on here. I'm not a lawyer, but I been involved in so many cases, doing litigation work between Contractors & H/Os. So many times there is this addition in the contract, H/O assumes liability for what ever, h/os signature as well, but in court it stands as Thom has explained above. More than not, the judge favors the h/o even more because with this in writing the Contractor "knew" it was wrong and proceeded. This is such an admission of wrong on the Contractor's side. In other words it was the senence that hung the Contractor. Because of the money, knowing it was wrong, getting the h/o's signature does not make it right.
Take heed in Thom's words for the next time any may run into this.
Some things it may work for cause it never makes it to a legal state, but when & if it ever does, this claus will hang you faster than not. Not have it in writing, one can plead no intent to do wrong.
__________________
Proud to help make a house your Home
Never judge another by one's own intelligence
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|