Opening Up A Wall

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-08-2010, 03:00 PM   #1
Member
 
rakuz66's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
Rewards Points: 25

Opening Up A Wall


Here's what I want to do. I have a 32" opening from my dining room into my living room. I'd like to put in a set of 6' French Doors in it's place. So, I obvioulsy need to open up the opening in the wall. The wall in question runs paralell with floor joists underneath,( under floor joists is crawl space) and is perpendicular to the celing joists above. Is this a load bearing wall? THere is empty attic space above. It is stick built house w/ ceiling joists and rafters. The only thing it is supporting is the c.joists.

Last edited by rakuz66; 02-08-2010 at 03:04 PM.
rakuz66 is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   
 

Old 02-08-2010, 03:16 PM   #2
I no spell good
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Trade: No Longer Zoned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,079
Rewards Points: 2,028

Re: Opening Up A Wall


I don't think looking for structural answers via the internet is the best way to get your answer. Consider getting a qualified person on site to make the call.

__________________
Angus
angus242 is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 03:27 PM   #3
"Pro"
 
Ayerzee's Avatar
 
Trade: Construction Engineering Student
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Malvern, OH
Posts: 628
Rewards Points: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ayerzee

Re: Opening Up A Wall


I'll echo Angus
__________________
Dan
Ayerzee is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 03:56 PM   #4
SEMI RETIRED
 
griz's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 12,683
Rewards Points: 2,292

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Same as the guys above.
You need someone qualified to
look at the situation & evaluate it.
griz is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:06 PM   #5
Pro
 
genecarp's Avatar
 
Trade: LI,NY designer, new homes, renovation work, concre
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,425
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Does the wall run parralel, with cieling joists above? GMOD
__________________
genecarp is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:12 PM   #6
Pro Framer Dude
 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 6,456
Rewards Points: 1,049

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Go down in the crawl space and see if there is any thing holding up the wall. Even if there isn't though, the wall may still be needed to hold up those ceil joists. Do you have access in the attic too? Are the ceiling joists spliced at this wall? What is the size and span of these ceiling joists? Help us help you! Get the facts first and then see if we can help. Some pics would be nice too.
__________________
There are some good mods out there.But a lot of them are just double wides with lipstick

WNC Viking
Warren is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 05:02 PM   #7
Rory Read
 
Rory Read's Avatar
 
Trade: Basements, Excavation, Waterproofing and Finishing
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 29
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Get into the crawl and use a string or level to see if the parallel floor joists closest to the wall in question are sagging more than the joists in the middle of the room, further away from the wall. In an old house, if they are bending more than the others, that's a strong sign the wall is bearing weight, whether it was intended to or not.

Google AWC Floor Joist Span Calculator. After measuring your floor and ceiling joists, use the form to see if the joists are capable of spanning the room with and without the aid of the interior wall.

Theoretically, it sounds like, and don't take my permission to take my word for it, you are just shifting the weight distribution along the floor joists, and as long as your new door doesn't weigh a ton, you would be ok as far as the floor goes.

In reality, stuff happens. If I was doing this in a client's home, I would make sure my new header can easily carry the ceiling joists and I would consider whether there is any possible need to sister joists, and or add posts or beams in the crawl space to carry that wall. Because once I touch it, I own it.

Kind of like when you touch it, you own it, as opposed to those of us offering up the proverbial 2 cents, who will be happy to offer you advice as to how to fix a collapsed roof as well.

Cheers,

R
Rory Read is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 06:47 PM   #8
Member
 
rakuz66's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Ok, guys I hear ya. I'll call in a pro, but just for sh*** and giggles I thought that if an interior wall runs paralell with the floor joists underneath, it is NOT a load bearing wall. Is that incorrect?
rakuz66 is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 06:50 PM   #9
Pro Framer Dude
 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 6,456
Rewards Points: 1,049

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by rakuz66 View Post
Ok, guys I hear ya. I'll call in a pro, but just for sh*** and giggles I thought that if an interior wall runs paralell with the floor joists underneath, it is NOT a load bearing wall. Is that incorrect?
We have done many jobs where a bearing wall runs parallel with the joists under it. It could be on a beam or even a block wall. If you can't even take the time to crawl under to check, No one here can help you.
__________________
There are some good mods out there.But a lot of them are just double wides with lipstick

WNC Viking
Warren is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 06:56 PM   #10
Member
 
rakuz66's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Hi Warren, I've been in the crawlspace many times. The floor joists run parallell with the wall above. THere are no doubled up joists or posts supporting that wall. The only thing in the crawlspace is the main beam which runs paerpendicular to the floor joists. The beam is at the midpoint.

So, you have a beam running left to right, floor joists running perpendicular on top of the beam, and the wall running paralell with the f. joists.
rakuz66 is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 07:11 PM   #11
Pro
 
fast fred's Avatar
 
Trade: carpentry
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: breckenridge co
Posts: 467
Rewards Points: 252

Re: Opening Up A Wall


1) whats a load beering wall?

2) if next week I'm gonna take out three floors of load beering walls should I be worried?

3) since Im half carpenter and half structural engineer I usually start pulling the walls down, shore it up, and find some high prices enginner to stamp it when I'm done.

4) why do people worry about doing these kinds of things, it's never really been a problem for me so far.
fast fred is offline  
Old 02-08-2010, 10:20 PM   #12
SEMI RETIRED
 
griz's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 12,683
Rewards Points: 2,292

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by rakuz66 View Post
Here's what I want to do. I have a 32" opening from my dining room into my living room. I'd like to put in a set of 6' French Doors in it's place. So, I obvioulsy need to open up the opening in the wall. The wall in question runs paralell with floor joists underneath,( under floor joists is crawl space) and is perpendicular to the celing joists above. Is this a load bearing wall? THere is empty attic space above. It is stick built house w/ ceiling joists and rafters. The only thing it is supporting is the c.joists.
What you are asking really sounds pretty simple and straight forward if you understand the basic principles of construction and framing. However, since you are asking makes it seem like you really don't understand what is going on or how to do it. Because of this it would be in your best interest to contact an experienced contractor or carpenter. It doesn't sound like you need an engineer unless you are going to get a permit and need stamped drawings. Technically you probably need a permit (out here we need permits to change light bulb well almost) but jobs are done like this everyday without. Good luck. Cheers Griz
griz is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to griz For This Useful Post:
Ayerzee (02-08-2010)
Old 02-08-2010, 10:33 PM   #13
Pro
 
rselectric1's Avatar
 
Trade: Licensed Electrical Contractor and Remodeler
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 9,406
Rewards Points: 2,054

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Echo, Echo, Echo.

Reading framing can be pretty tricky during a remodel. If you're not sure, get a framer, or engineer, or experienced contractor to read it for you.

Looks can be decieving. Common sense isn't always evident when you are crawling around with a flashlight in the attic or crawlspace. A good framer can save you from disaster...literally. They know all the tricks.
__________________
220...221...whatever it takes!
rselectric1 is online now  
Old 02-09-2010, 04:42 AM   #14
30 yrs carpentry/drywall
 
Carpenter Wayne's Avatar
 
Trade: Interiors/finishes
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West MI
Posts: 89
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by genecarp View Post
Does the wall run parralel, with cieling joists above? GMOD
good question
__________________
http://hstrial-pdsdrywall.intuitwebsites.com/

He who lives on hope - dies of starvation

Last edited by Carpenter Wayne; 02-10-2010 at 09:35 PM.
Carpenter Wayne is offline  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:21 AM   #15
Pro
 
mics_54's Avatar
 
Trade: contractor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,067
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Quote:
if it's running perpendicular to the joist above - it's holding up the 2nd floor or roofing system (joist/rafters/roof) and therefore IS a load bearing wall
I beg to differ...merely because a wall is oriented perpendicular to the joists above it does not make it a load bearing wall any more than being oriented parallel to the joists above it makes it a non-loadbearing wall.

What disignates a wall as "loadbearing" is the presence or absence of a load upon the wall.
mics_54 is offline  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:35 AM   #16
Pro
 
PA woodbutcher's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northeast, Pa
Posts: 1,965
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: Opening Up A Wall


40 posts of how do I, can I and welcome...Maybe you should hire a carpenter
__________________
When you rob Peter to pay Paul, chances are pretty good you will receive Paul's vote. Apparently the object of the game is to create more Pauls than Peters....What happens when the Peters can no longer support the Pauls? .
PA woodbutcher is offline  
Old 02-09-2010, 03:22 PM   #17
30 yrs carpentry/drywall
 
Carpenter Wayne's Avatar
 
Trade: Interiors/finishes
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West MI
Posts: 89
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by mics_54 View Post
I beg to differ...merely because a wall is oriented perpendicular to the joists above it does not make it a load bearing wall any more than being oriented parallel to the joists above it makes it a non-loadbearing wall.

What disignates a wall as "loadbearing" is the presence or absence of a load upon the wall.
No ****
__________________
http://hstrial-pdsdrywall.intuitwebsites.com/

He who lives on hope - dies of starvation

Last edited by Carpenter Wayne; 02-10-2010 at 09:36 PM.
Carpenter Wayne is offline  
Old 02-09-2010, 03:41 PM   #18
Pro
 
mics_54's Avatar
 
Trade: contractor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,067
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Opening Up A Wall


Quote:
No **** - the freekin floor joist and/or rafters above the wall running perpendicular to it and "resting on the wall" making it - "load bearing" Einstein
You have no idea from the information provided if the joists are supported by the wall or not. There is not enough information provided to make your assertion. You post states if the wall is oriented perpendicular to the joists above that it is load bearing. This is false.

And...I didn't attack you or your post. I just stated that you were incorrect.

Last edited by mics_54; 02-09-2010 at 03:47 PM.
mics_54 is offline  
Old 02-09-2010, 04:40 PM   #19
"Pro"
 
Ayerzee's Avatar
 
Trade: Construction Engineering Student
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Malvern, OH
Posts: 628
Rewards Points: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ayerzee

Re: Opening Up A Wall


I still agree with Angus
__________________
Dan
Ayerzee is offline  
Old 02-09-2010, 06:15 PM   #20
Contractor
 
72chevy4x4's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling & Home Additions
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Delaware
Posts: 2,844
Rewards Points: 2,002

Re: Opening Up A Wall


I agree with Cletus!

72chevy4x4 is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Framing method for windows in existing steel stud inerior wall. ridge runner Framing 1 10-08-2009 04:34 PM
brick wall renovation or coverup rusty2010 General Discussion 9 05-25-2009 02:55 PM
brick wall renovation or coverup rusty2010 Contractor Swap 0 05-24-2009 07:39 PM
A Clients House - Opening a wall up completely. holdench Carpentry 36 02-05-2009 11:30 PM
wall panel around bullnose kevbo Finish Carpentry 2 08-30-2008 08:04 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?