Cost Vs. Value; Great Remodeling Article

elvinstheman

Check this out and be sure to search for your region. Seems like it could be great for marketing and for client information purposes:
http://www.remodeling.hw.net/content...&sectionID=173

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dougchips

Go slow with promoting their numbers. Their data is really wacky, I have used it in the past and then the number changes by 20%. Areas with small "samples" vary more than I can handle. For example, I was quoting their number for Providence RI at I think 110% return on a high end window job, then the number went to 90%. According to Hanley you get a positive return, oops I guess you lost money. For a major city the data might be a little more even.

BTW, they will sell you data for a city and when you open the pdf it says no data for the city. I promote Hanley Wood/ JLC all over this and other sites, but this program just socks for me.

kylemfk

be careful
most one call closers keep this in there briefcase. A little research makes that article not so powerful. And if your selling style is different the homeowner may bunch you in with the other guys for pulling it out.

Greg Di

What do they consider to be mid range vs. upscale?

Some of the numbers make sense, while others appear to be way off to me.

For instance, they show a mid range bath remodel at $13k+, it's more like $16-18 by the time you figure in fixtures by me.

Yet, the mid range kitchen vs Upscale shows a 100% price difference and quite frankly, they are saying that midscale kitchen job is $56k? I would say that's probably high for the average kitchen using mid range cabinets and materials. More like $35-40k.

It makes you wonder...

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Mike Finley

I'm curious if anybody else realizes that those studies show that homeowners lose money on their remodeling investment?

Ed the Roofer

They are only losing money if they did the upgrade with the immediate intent on selling the home with a higher resale value due to the upgades being implemented.

There are differing value structures to be considered.

What if the old worn out leaky roof would sway potential buyers from considering the purchase of that house at all. Now, with a new beautiful 30 year architectural style roof, it has gained from the curb appeal saleability aspect. Will they recoup their entire $ 10,000.00 roof investment cost? Possibly, but of more valid consideration is that now the house has more saleability.

Did they do the kitchen upgrade to sell the home? Or, did the wife want to more fully enjoy taller more decorative cabinets and beautiful new counter tops for the remaining 3-4 years they intended on staying there before selling? What would the cost of those same kitchen upgrades cost 4 years from now, if the new buyer wanted to consider adding them in after purchase?

Too many people view the home equity as only an investment, when it comes time to pay for remodeling/maintenance upgrades, where they also need to be educated on the significant life enrichment aspects of having the dream of theirs versus keeping the 1970's status quo.

Ed

Mike Finley

If you're showing somebody returns on investment what difference do the other reasons for remodeling have to do with it? If the customer is doing a remodel for enjoyment of the space what is the releveance of showing them ROIs and showing them they are losing money?

Sure there are other value structures, but what do they have to do with it if you are showing somebody ROI? Why would show somebody something like this?

Anybody care to explain how spending money on replacement windows is a good financial idea?

dougchips

A few years ago 110% return on new windows for one of my areas. I was telling everyone (quoting them), ask me how I feel about their numbers now. Still waiting for a HO to call me on it.

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dougchips

Didn't see your other post Mike,

1- Lower heating bills using energy efficient windows.

2- Lower cooling bills.

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Mike Finley

With the average homeowner staying in a home just over 7 years and a 25 -30 year time span to recoup the window costs from the savings of lower heating & cooling bills? I don't see it.

I believe window replacement is just like fixing up old cars. The only person who ever benefits is the guy who buys the old car for $20,000 from the guy who spent $30,000 fixing it up.

dougchips

Mike, financal advisors are not running around telling people to invest in new windows! Some window salespeople are. The windows will pay for themself over time. 25-30 years is not an accurate figure, where did you get it? Most people replace the windows becuase they get drafts, their existing windows do not open, they are tired of painting them........all sorts of reasons.

Take your own house and run the figures through Energy stars web-site and see how long it would take your home to pay for the windows.


Check out this link, you might learn something, I did.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...s.pr_savemoney

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To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

Mike Finley

Just to let you know, I've been showing that survey around for the last 2 years to customers. When I show it to them I always wonder when the first one is going to figure it out, but nobody does.

Anyways, I tried running my house through that site and couldn't find even where to start, only thing I saw was $125-$400 savings a year for window replacement due to lower energy bills. My house is about 4000 sq ft with a ton of windows, how much to replace em all? $10,000 retail? That's 25 years just to break even on the high number and 80 years on the low number.

Where am I messing this up?

dougchips

Mike, those figures are based on a 2000 square foot house, your house is twice the size. Not sure if that means twice the savings? I'll have to dig up the page where HO's can enter their sf, type of heat, type of existing windows in order to get a projected savings. There is a link on the other link for RESFEN but you have to download a program and it is not for HO's.

Under the assumption that you savings would be twice that of a 2000sf house, you would need one of those mortgage calculators. If you saved $300 the first year and you saved or invested this money and continued this practice, your pay off time would be much sooner than 25 years.

4000 sf house, do you live in a group home? (kidding)

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To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

Mike Finley

See if you can find the page, I'm really not trying to break your balls on this, so if you can find that page I would be interested.

As for the square footage, hey, a man's gotta have some room to spread out ya know?

dougchips

http://hes.lbl.gov/ Mike this one is a pain in the ass but easier than Resfen. Enter your stuff then click on the top an enter the stuff for doors and windows. You will need to know or guess the amount of doors and windows on each side of your house. Once you hit calculate you can look at the reports and scroll down and look at the windows area. If you have the time fill out the non door and windows fields to see how much you can save if you make your home energy efficient.


thought you would like this lead I received

Project Details: I live in a mobile home. My tub from the 7o`s has cracks in the bottom. And I am positive it is leaking. I do not have 5,000 for Bath Fitters. That is the estimate they gave me.
Additional Details:

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To get the best replacement windows, or sun rooms contact the replacement windows experts at FHI Vinyl Window Company.

elvinstheman

Mike, you asked why you would show an HO that article and it makes sense for me because of where I live. Might not where you are.

I do agree, however, that the numbers are surprisingly modest. Compare those with the upgrade values on HGTV shows like "My House is Worth What?" Somewhere between the two is probably where the truth lies. (Umm...lays?)

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