Would You Pay?

 
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:05 AM   #41
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Re: Would You Pay?


[quote=carpenter uk;6485073]
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Originally Posted by TxElectrician View Post

We have 2 different types of subs in the uk, full package or labour only

Full package takes full responsibility for that element supplies everything needed labour materials and sometimes design

Labour only are more like temp employees that work on a price given to them or hourly rate
I figured you had something similar but different from the US.

Here, Federal Tax Form 1099 is for sub-contractors. Technically they are actual businesses that file their own taxes, but in reality, they can be anyone who just wants a flat paycheck with no taxes taken out. It can be just labor, or, parts, materials and labor ( again assuming they are an actual contracting business and not just "some guy")

There are companies here that do supply labor only temp workers. However the per hour rate is higher than just paying a guy straight wages. This is because the temp company pays all the employee taxes, workers comp and so forth.

Personally, I have done everything above. Although now, we have employees, all legitimate. Haven't had to use temps for some time now.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #42
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Re: Would You Pay?


We do the carpentry as sub contractors to main contractors on commercial projects and the carpenters we use are sub contractors to us (bit like guns for hire) We have several which are with us year in year out so more like employees but we take a lot on for temporary contracts from a few days to a few months as and when we need them
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:06 PM   #43
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Re: Would You Pay?


sub sub contractors to sub contractors to main contractors
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:11 PM   #44
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Re: Would You Pay?


you sent new hires off on their own to work unsupervised? And after weeks of seeing no progress, you continued to use them without supervision? um...
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:36 AM   #45
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Re: Would You Pay?


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you sent new hires off on their own to work unsupervised? And after weeks of seeing no progress, you continued to use them without supervision? um...
What a surprise right?
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:46 AM   #46
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Re: Would You Pay?


Poor supervision / management.
Should have designated a lead man to be in charge and paid him a premium or bonus if he beat estimate. Even from a distance you should be having daily discussions and setting daily and weekly progress goals. People do a lot better when they know what is expected of them.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:29 PM   #47
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Re: Would You Pay?


Did you find this gang of 4 standing outside the local Home Depot?
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:56 PM   #48
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Re: Would You Pay?


I would make my best attempt to avoid paying them for work they did not do. Advice from others is correct when they say you can get into more hot water, but at the same time you should make your best effort to pay the correct amount.

I have these types of problems all the time when paying employees by the hour. What you can do is take each employee into a quiet room one at a time and say, " the reason I am meeting you is because I want to be fair and I want to pay you every penny you have coming. At the same time I want you to be fair with me."

Then, you explain that you've been doing that type of work for several years, you have a tight and limited budget and you would like to pay for the portion of work that was done.

The worker is going to blame every other person for the shortcomings and all you continue to say is that you don't have enough money in the budget to pay for the small portion of work that was done. You drop the ball in the employee's lap. You never tell the employee you don't want to pay him. You get the employee to reduce his pay.

There are always exceptions when I pay by the hour, but I build homes and pay every single worker by the piece. The only workers that get hourly rates are the workers that do the clean-up and I pay by the hour at the end of the job for workers to put the final touches on things.

I had a crew that was installing water pipes and the entire crew got paid by the piece. The crew completed 1 job every day. I got greedy and decided that I could pay less and make more money if I paid the crew a salary. The crew gladly accepted my offer, but the same 1-day jobs started taking 3 days. So, I started paying the crew by the piece again and you will find this hard to believe, but the crew started doing 2 of the same jobs every day. Then, a few months the crew started their own business without a license. So much for being greedy!!!

I've worked on a project with 127 new homes. This crew came to California from Texas with about 50 framers. They framed the entire 127 homes, office building and community room in 90 days because the carpenters were paid by the piece. I had 30 plumbers on the job and the carpenters were way too far ahead of my crews. I will never take on a job and try to outrun Texas framers.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:07 PM   #49
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Re: Would You Pay?


When you hire someone hourly you are agreeing to pay them for the hours they are on site whether they are ****ing the dog or not.

We would all bitch and complain if our customers went gee I don't think you worked hard enough today here is 50% what we agreed upon

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Old 11-17-2017, 02:10 AM   #50
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Re: Would You Pay?


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Originally Posted by SectorSecurity View Post
When you hire someone hourly you are agreeing to pay them for the hours they are on site whether they are ****ing the dog or not.

We would all bitch and complain if our customers went gee I don't think you worked hard enough today here is 50% what we agreed upon

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Employees enter into a binding legal agreement when they work for a contractor and are paid by the hour. There is no difference in my book between a person who shoplifts and an employee who steals money charging for hours he did not work. Both persons are thieves. There is no difference between an employee who steals cash from my wallet and an employee who steals my money by cheating on his hours.

The concern in this thread is about whether or not the employees performed a commensurable amount of work they want to be paid for. If they agreed to work for an hourly rate then the employees are legally obligated to perform that work.

Is the employer obligated to pay the employees if the employees watched **** on their cell phones all day.

Is the employer obligated to pay the employees if the employees committed to producing work for eight hours and purposely did only one hour of work.

Can an employer take his hourly workers to court to settle this matter.

If your customer paid you for eight hours of work and you did only one hour of work are you legally entitled to get paid for eight hours.

You can bet that if you worked for me painting my bathroom for eight hours and you painted only one small wall you would not get paid for eight hours and if you try to get the money from me we will be doing some fancy dance moves before you get your check.

Take this to the extreme. A contractor puts an hourly employee on a job for 8 hours. The employee drinks beer all day, snorts coke and does no work at all. Does the contractor have to pay the employee for 8 hours? It will be a cold day before he gets one penny from me.

I have absolutely no problem with looking an employee in the eye and tell him he did not do the amount of work he was paid for and when I suspect that an employee purposely screwed off talking on his phone, did not work well because he partied all night, or whatever, I will not let that employee steal from me and I will reduce the number of hours he puts on his time card if that employee wants to remain employed with my company. If the employee fights hard for his money I usually pay him and tell him to take a hike.

I will always put up a fight for what is right.

I don't know the details about what happened, but since the contractor visited the job several time and saw that production was slow, I would assume and hope that the contractor made his expectations clear and that the worked knew the contractor's expectations.

Either way, I will put the blame for bad production on the workers. The workers knew the contractors expectations and if there was something wrong with those expectations any good workers would communicate their concerns to avoid being paid for work they do not perform.

Here is a perfect example. I hired a full-time website designer and so-called internet expert. On the first day, after he worked 4 hours, I walked into his office and he was sitting at his desk with the light off and was looking at his cell phone. I asked him why the light was off and he said because he did not have the power cord for the computer. Five minutes later, I gave him a power supply and I left for the rest of the day.

On the second day of employment, I walked into the worker's office at about 11 am and the light was off. I asked him why and he said it was because he did not have the password for the computer.. I did very well holding back my emotions, walked back to my office, wrote a check for 4 hours instead of the 12 hours he worked and I told him he had better be happy with the amount he received. I would have let that person threaten a lawsuit before I would roll over and play dead.

Last edited by daffysplumbing; 11-17-2017 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:59 PM   #51
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Re: Would You Pay?


Your missing the point if they said they worked 12 hours and ****ed off after 6 billing you for 12 I agree that's a problem.

If they worked all 12 hours and simply didn't complete the level of work you wanted your still obligated to pay for 12 hours.

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Old 11-17-2017, 03:16 PM   #52
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Re: Would You Pay?


They bumped up the hours worked, disappeared for long breaks, worked in pairs so 1 was watching but doing no work, their work was shoddy and on reflection I wish I had paid them nothing for the last week as we are still correcting problems. They were sub contractors so there was no legal obligation as employees. Had they worked as hard as they could but still not reached targets I would have happily paid them off as they had tried their best but as others have said I feel like I have been deliberately robbed and does not feel any different to someone stealing my wallet.

All my other lads are on price work so im not used to people stealing time but lesson learned

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