Workmans Comp Waiver

 
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Old 05-09-2007, 06:14 AM   #1
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Workmans Comp Waiver


Hi guys,
Well I'm getting ready to start my first (big to me) job. I've printed out the building permit application, and there is a spot to provide a comp certificate or a waiver form. Now since it's just me I don't carry comp. My question is where do I get the waiver form?
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Old 05-09-2007, 06:32 AM   #2
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Disregard. I found it.

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Old 05-09-2007, 10:34 AM   #3
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Mud Master,

This guy here just exemplifies the point I was making about the abuses in the system for subcontracting, especially one man sole proprietor shows, who invariably choose to be exempt from WC.

If he chooses to "Exempt" himself from workers compenstion, who will be responsible for any injury that may befall him?

Ed
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Old 05-09-2007, 10:51 AM   #4
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Ed, what exactly does the waiver provide? If he signs off on a WC waiver, doesn't it mean he 'waives' his rights if injured?
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Old 05-09-2007, 10:58 AM   #5
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Maybe "waiver" and "exempt" are two different legal definitions.

If he exempts himself and gets hurt, someone else will be responsible for the injury.

If he is a sub, then the primary contractors work comp insurance must cover him, and how are they to know that unless a full audit is done for every primary and sub prior to every job.

This also brings up the item whereby a sub goes out and get insurance and pays the deposit premium, just tro get a certificate in hand, and then cancelt the insurance, unbeknownst to the primary contractor or homeowner.

Ed
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Old 05-09-2007, 05:24 PM   #6
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


A workers comp waiver does not allow the exempted person to claim from anyone else, no matter what, the person has waived the right to claim by exempting himself.

I have an exemption but then I pay a healthy sum each month for medical coverage for myself and family, I do not see the financial benefits of paying twice for the same thing.

As far as people cancelling after collecting their policy, (down here at least) the insurance company has to send notice to any company that they sent a copy of the policy too, that it has been cancelled.
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Old 05-10-2007, 10:35 AM   #7
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Jesus lighten up ed. You know nothing about me.
A. I am not abusing the system
B. I am a one man show
C. I am not subcontracting
D. I was looking for the form,as it is required to take out a building permit.
And yes the waiver does mean,at least in this state, that i waive any rights to claims should i get hurt.
You know ed,I've read several of your posts. Good stuff mostly. But you have a knack for hammering the little guy. Not all of our companies are as big as yours,but that doesn't mean we're all under the radar guys. I have all my required licenses and insurance. i pay my taxes, i pull permits,and I waive comp for myself. I have medical insurance, and you can bet that when I do get some employees i will have comp on them.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:15 AM   #8
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


No way! I think that this is one of the most major issues I have to contend with.

As just a one man business, it works for you, especially if you were to have full medical and disability coverage on your own. I absolutely makes no sense at all for you to be paying into the work comp pool.

My gripe is that most roofing contractors have no employees, except for maybe a secretary/bookkeeper and/or any additional sales personal.
Even the sales person may be treated as a 1099 worker versus an employee.

Since they have no roofing technicians that work for them, they have dedicated subcontractors who do all of there work. These subs then supposedly have employees, right?

Not usually! At that point, they are under the radar of even being a known link in the contracting equation to the homeowner. They do not have to show proof of insurance to the end purchaser, the homeowner. These subs tend to pay either cash wages or 1099 there "employees" if they are even trying to make appearances that they are being legal and paying all fees required to actually be a true and legitimate sub.

Just the act of signing a waiver on your part, would not ward off any attorney you would seek out in the event of an injury which occurred on a job site. Are you claiming that if you climbed up another contractors ladder, which was not properly secured, that your attorney would state that you screwed yourself by signing a piece of paper which theoretically waived your rights? No way! The attorney would still find legal reason and rationale to seek remittance for the lost wages and pain and suffering due to you. Many other examples could be laid out.

By the way, I am not a large business. I have just been in business for 23 years, and intentionally have stifled my company growth due to raising my 4 year old boy at home versus having a day care facility raise my son. I currently have 2 secretaries who each work 4 hours per day and 4-5 roofing crew employees who work full time, plus myself as the sales person. I do not consider that to be a very large company.

I have to struggle to compete against the above laid out scenario on a daily basis and it sucks when the financial obligations for all parties bidding on the same type of work are not upheld to the same standards across the board because of explicit circumvention of the workers compensation system.

Remember, this is not directed at a just one man shop, who does all of his own work.

Ed

Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 05-11-2007 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 05-10-2007, 03:12 PM   #9
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


I guess i misunderstood you ed. And i apologize for going on the defensive.
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Old 05-10-2007, 03:41 PM   #10
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


I would like to point out something here,

GC has a contract to do a job,he has to provide ins documents (lets say he uses a comp exemption) to the owner,the owner is then not liable for claims from GC.

He subs out the block work, the brickie has to provide ins documents to GC (he also has a comp exemption). Gc is then not liable for claims from his company.

If brickie then uses subs to do the work they must provide ins documents to him (they have a comp exemption too), then Brickie is not liable for claims from his subs.

If one of the brickies subs climbs the GC,s ladder and falls off because of an unstable condition, he can claim damages from GC, but that would be a claim against the liability insurance. He would not be able to claim against workers comp, because he has none, and none is provided for him.

It is up to each individual to make sure they have the correct insurance or waivers from all of their subs before work begins as far as forged or cancelled insurance documents go well there is nothing that can be done about that, but I can't think of a scenario under those conditions that anyone would win a claim in court, they in fact would get busted for fraud.

Or did I completely miss the subject ?
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Old 05-10-2007, 04:00 PM   #11
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


I think you have to cover your a$$. I worked for a framing company for many years. We were all employees, the "ol'man" that owned the company did everything by the book as far as comp,taxes liability. One spring we were real busy,so he was trying to find help. Anyone who would show up wanted to be 1099. Most of these guys had tax problems of their own. the ol'man didn't like to do this,but it was all he was getting. So in the end he did hire them and 1099 them,but he also carried comp on them. Like he said " I'm not losing my house,because some gypsy framer wants to hide out".
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Old 05-12-2007, 09:01 PM   #12
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Here is some info as it applies to Florida. Mike did not mention what state he was in, but there is a HUGE difference in benefits when it comes to workers comp and health.

I took this from the state web site.

An employer engaged in the construction industry that employs one or more part or full time employees or an employer in the non-construction industry that employs 4 or more part or full time employees must have Florida workers’ compensation insurance. Employee includes: Corporate officers, and for construction industry employers, limited liability company members sole proprietors, and partners. Corporate officers, which for construction industry employers, include s a member of a limited liability company are eligible to elect to be exempt from the provisions of Chapter 440.
An employer in the construction industry shall require any sub-contractor who sub-contracts work from an employer to provide evidence of Florida workers’ compensation insurance. If the sub-contractor has a valid exemption, then the sub-contractor shall also provide a copy of his or her certificate of exemption to the employer .
A change in job duties performed by employees or an increase in the amount of payroll of a business must be reported to the insurance company.
If an employer has secured workers’ compensation coverage for his or her employees by entering into an employee leasing arrangement, the employer must specifically identify coverage for each and every employee. The employer must notify the employee leasing company of the names of all the covered employees and any additional employees that are working on a jobsite that may have been excluded from the employee leasing arrangement. Any change in job duties performed by the employees must also be reported to the employee leasing company

Now for the exemption part!

Construction industry corporate officer, including a member of a limited liability company (LLC)
  • The corporation must be registered with the Florida Department of State, Division of Corporations -
  • The applicant must be listed as an officer of the corporation in the records of the Florida Department of State, Division of Corporations -
  • A copy of the relevant occupational license in the primary jurisdiction of the business must be provided -
  • The applicant must own at least 10 percent of the stock of the corporation as evidenced by a stock certificate or in the case of an LLC a notarized statement attesting to the minimum 10 percent ownership - The applicant must list all certified or registered licenses issued to you pursuant to Chapter 489, Florida Statutes
  • A $50.00 application fee is required -
  • No more than three officers of a corporation (including LLC) or of any group of affiliated corporations (including LLCs) may elect to be exempt
  • How does Workers Comp benefit Me?

Most Important -Your health Insurance does not pay you when you are hurt! Read Below!

Medical Benefits & Choice of Physician

The employee's choice of physician may be by selection from a list maintained by the employer, or the employer may designate the care provider. If care is provided through an authorized managed care arrangement, the employee selects from a list supplied by the carrier or managed care organization.
After maximum medical improvement is reached, a $10 patient copayment is required for all medical services. If an injured worker fails to appear for a scheduled independent medical examination, the injured worker is liable for 50% of the "no show" fee charged by the provider.
Disability Benefits Provided

Payments are made for temporary total disability (TTD) in an amount determined by a percentage of the worker's wage, subject to a weekly maximum payment amount. Payments may continue for up to 104 weeks. Benefits are subject to Social Security and Unemployment Insurance benefit offsets.
Payments are made for permanent total disability (PTD) based upon a percentage of the worker's wage, subject to a weekly maximum payment amount. Payments for PTD continue for the duration of the disability. Payments for permanent partial disability (PPD) are made based upon a percentage of the worker's wage, subject to a weekly maximum.
Scheduled awards are not paid in addition to total temporary disability benefits.
Benefits may be available for disfigurement resulting from catastrophic injury.
Physical rehabilitation benefits are covered under medical services. Vocational rehabilitation benefits are available.
With certain constraints and filing deadlines, occupational hearing losses may be compensable.
Death Benefits Provided

Death benefits are payable to an employee's surviving spouse, or spouse and children, based upon a percentage of the employee's wages, subject to a cap. A burial allowance is available
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Old 05-13-2007, 07:58 AM   #13
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Ed; Your a preachi'n to the choir here.....

The "calling what are truely employees, subcontractors, (to avoid paying appropriate labor burdens), here in Colorado, is the norm, rather than the exception....

It has dramatically degradated the construction industry over the years. It's a "perfect fit" for the predominant illegal alien employment extravaganza that's going on here.

California's on the right track with their recent manditory WC for roofers....
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:47 AM   #14
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Looking for advised to protect myself with notarized document to release me from liability during replaacement of my roof. Have found contractor insurance coverage unknown . Knows he sub work out, state of Louisiana.

thanks I need help
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:06 AM   #15
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Waivers of WC are not legal in IL I am told.

I have seen people write into the contracts that they won't be sued if anything happens. I laugh and tell the customer to call their insurance agent and alwer and tell them that, and to see what their advisors have to say.
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Old 02-16-2009, 07:16 AM   #16
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


I've been told by my insurance agent that in the case of an accident, the relationship between the employer and employee (subcontractor) is going to be examined.

Can you guys tell me what determines if they are an employee or subcontractor in the eyes of the court? There is more to it than being paid for a job versus an hourly wage or salary.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:11 AM   #17
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel65 View Post
A workers comp waiver does not allow the exempted person to claim from anyone else, no matter what, the person has waived the right to claim by exempting himself.

I have an exemption but then I pay a healthy sum each month for medical coverage for myself and family, I do not see the financial benefits of paying twice for the same thing.

As far as people cancelling after collecting their policy, (down here at least) the insurance company has to send notice to any company that they sent a copy of the policy too, that it has been cancelled.
It is illegal to use your mediacl coverage for any on the job injuries.

WC is not medical insurance and medical insurance is not WC.

They are two seperate insurance policies, so you would not be paying twice for the same thing.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:19 AM   #18
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel65 View Post
I would like to point out something here,

GC has a contract to do a job,he has to provide ins documents (lets say he uses a comp exemption) to the owner,the owner is then not liable for claims from GC.

He subs out the block work, the brickie has to provide ins documents to GC (he also has a comp exemption). Gc is then not liable for claims from his company.

If brickie then uses subs to do the work they must provide ins documents to him (they have a comp exemption too), then Brickie is not liable for claims from his subs.

If one of the brickies subs climbs the GC,s ladder and falls off because of an unstable condition, he can claim damages from GC, but that would be a claim against the liability insurance. He would not be able to claim against workers comp, because he has none, and none is provided for him.

It is up to each individual to make sure they have the correct insurance or waivers from all of their subs before work begins as far as forged or cancelled insurance documents go well there is nothing that can be done about that, but I can't think of a scenario under those conditions that anyone would win a claim in court, they in fact would get busted for fraud.

Or did I completely miss the subject ?
Wrong, the General Contractor would be responsible for the injured workers WC, his liability insurance would not be liable for the injured persons injuries.

In your case not only would the Homeowner be liable, the GC as well as the mason who hired the worker who got hurt.

The GC is responsible for everyone brought on the job and if he does not have the proper insurance, they can go after the HO, and when the HO's policy pays out, they will come after the GC.

Read your Florida Contractors Manual again.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:05 PM   #19
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidT View Post
Looking for advised to protect myself with notarized document to release me from liability during replaacement of my roof. Have found contractor insurance coverage unknown . Knows he sub work out, state of Louisiana.

thanks I need help

Here's my advise:

FIND ANOTHER CONTRACTOR WITH THE PROPER INSURANCE
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:50 PM   #20
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Re: Workmans Comp Waiver


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