WorkComp. Ma and CT - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

gman1985 · 07-11-2009, 03:50 PM

i know its a very broad quastion and the answer can be very long but still. How do u guys that own small companys deal with workers comp? any way to go around it ? i only have 2 " employees " that make around 40k a year combined thats around 3k a year for me to pay. thats bull**** if u ask me . What do you do about it ?

bwalley · 07-11-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman1985

i know its a very broad quastion and the answer can be very long but still. How do u guys that own small companys deal with workers comp? any way to go around it ? i only have 2 " employees " that make around 40k a year combined thats around 3k a year for me to pay. thats bull**** if u ask me . What do you do about it ?

Honest contractors don't get around W/C they buy a policy.

Btw 3k a year on 40k is 13.3%, seems low for a roofer to me.

Warren · 07-11-2009, 03:54 PM

WAhhhhh! 2005 my first year of my new business, my workers comp rate was 18%. This worked out to about $35000 on a total payroll of $200,000.
This was for 5 to 6 employees. Bid your jobs accordingly and move on. In Ohio, after 1 year in business, you can apply for coverage through a group. Many are available, and I chose one through the Home Builders Association as this group offers me other benefits in my trade and is well worth what I pay in dues. My current WC rate is now about 5.5%

Warren · 07-11-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalley

Honest contractors don't get around W/C they buy a policy.

Btw 3k a year on 40k is 13.3%, seems low for a roofer to me.

Check your math. This is about 8%

gman1985 · 07-11-2009, 04:04 PM

well the actual rate here in mass is 6.7% for vinyl Siding policy not even sure what it is for roofing , all im saying that they charge u so much that its just ipmossibly to survive as a small bussiness owner , arent they make enough money off us? and if i didnt go around it and paid the bill then i would have to charge twice more = no work at all .

bwalley · 07-11-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Check your math. This is about 8%

It is a good thing I am not a CPA

Warren · 07-11-2009, 04:12 PM

and if I didnt go around it and paid the bill?????

So your not even paying for it and your griping about it? Don't worry, you won't be in business long enough for it to be a factor.

bwalley · 07-11-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman1985

well the actual rate here in mass is 6.7% for vinyl Siding policy not even sure what it is for roofing , all im saying that they charge u so much that its just ipmossibly to survive as a small bussiness owner , arent they make enough money off us? and if i didnt go around it and paid the bill then i would have to charge twice more = no work at all .

If you are doing roofing, you need to pay roofing W/C rates, not siding rates, they have different rates, roofing is typically the highest rate.

If you are going around the W/C you shouldn't be in business.

How would carrying the proper W/C which is 8% going to double your selling price?

WarriorWithWood · 07-11-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman1985

and if i didnt go around it and paid the bill then i would have to charge twice more = no work at all .

What happens when one of your 20k /year guys fall off the roof? Are you going to pay his hospital bill or are you going to make him sue you for it?

Let me guess....no taxes neither right, both of your "employees" get a 1099 right? Too expensive to put them on the books? Of course you're going to be cheaper than most, you're an illegal sub-contractor (gypsy).

With the path you've chosen I give it a year before you're sued out of business.

mikec · 07-12-2009, 05:21 AM

Your rate is way low, and you're bitching? You are one of the many here in the CT/MA area who 1099 right? No comp? I pay $4,600 a year for one man.
Things have been slow, so after my audit they estimated my payroll at 25k.
Thats for remodeling with 20% roofing.
The one man I have left (who is laid off half of the time) is 21 years old. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't sleep very good at night if he were to fall off a roof, and become crippled, and I had no comp.
Pay the damn Comp!

Pearce Services · 07-12-2009, 03:03 PM

In Mass, no Workers Comp means no permit. So you are not pulling permits, making the HO pull their own permits, or making them sign off that they accept you as not being insured.

WC is only on 6.7% of the labor paid to the employee, not on the whole job, a $10,000 siding job matls and labor, should cost you less than $300 per job. I have to imagine that the value to the homeowner between a legit and a non-legit contractor for the same job is a lot more than $300. Pay the price, add the cost, and be a salesman and make more money.

I can dig it · 07-12-2009, 07:10 PM

Look at http://www.workerscomproofing.com

gman1985 · 07-13-2009, 07:21 PM

i do have workers comp / liability / HIC in MA and CT /
CSL im MA and i do pull permits for all the jobs i do, all i was trying to find out if other ppl have any way to go around paying so much for workers comp. maybe 5000$ for w/c is nothing for some of u guys but for me is a killer i just started a few years ago im 24 years old and my company is me and 2 other guys thats it .
Guess talking abuot getting around stuff is a no no on this site

Framer53 · 07-13-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman1985

i do have workers comp / liability / HIC in MA and CT /
CSL im MA and i do pull permits for all the jobs i do, all i was trying to find out if other ppl have any way to go around paying so much for workers comp. maybe 5000$ for w/c is nothing for some of u guys but for me is a killer i just started a few years ago im 24 years old and my company is me and 2 other guys thats it .
Guess talking abuot getting around stuff is a no no on this site

It is not talking about it, but the "getting around" that sets people off. By the way. that rate is awsome. If you want to see some high rates. step on over to NY!!!!!

WarriorWithWood · 07-13-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman1985

and if i didnt go around it and paid the bill then i would have to charge twice more = no work at all .

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman1985

i do have workers comp

.

DQM · 07-13-2009, 07:53 PM

8% ? I would be happy to only have to pay that. I was at 20% and They raised me to 21%. Ive been slow low payroll so far this year. Shopping around now.

jimmys · 07-14-2009, 03:08 PM

gman, I think most of these guys (and me) are coming from the fact that they started out young and small, and grew into bigger outfits that play by the rules. The rules include covering your employees against injury, by being careful and by carrying insurance. You picked a very competitive trade to start up in. Your margins are going to be thin, and comp is a big expense for sure compared to a siding table and saw. But unless you want to do all the labor yourself, you've basically agreed to play in the same pool as the guys calling you out here. Same rules cover all. Getting around the rules isn't for business people. We all hate paying comp.
Jim

JumboJack · 07-14-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman1985

i know its a very broad quastion and the answer can be very long but still. How do u guys that own small companys deal with workers comp? any way to go around it ? i only have 2 " employees " that make around 40k a year combined thats around 3k a year for me to pay. thats bull**** if u ask me . What do you do about it ?

Here's how I get around it...I am a one man shop and pretty small time compared to some guy's here....
I do all the work I can myself.And I hire licensed contractors to do the things I can't do....Simple.

marketingmaven · 07-15-2009, 02:49 PM

If you don't have it, the first time one of your workers is hurt on the job, you will wish you did! I would pay it and move forward.

Patrick · 07-15-2009, 08:58 PM

Gman where in MA are you from? We are in the same boat, but we pay the comp. Its really not a lot compared to some of the other crap we have to pay.