What Would You Do

threaderman

I bid on a tub/shower valve replacement and they wanted to install a new door-way where a gas line is for a old wall furnace,so I would have to crawl underneath and cap off or plug the branch somewhere also.
I hadn't heard from them for 2 days and knew they were getting other estimates so I e-mailed them and explained for better or worse I would like feed-back.They said I was nice ,knowledgeable and professional.I was 100.00 more than the competition [700.00 total] because I prefer to run hard pipe in the tub/shower walls.They basically told me we were all priced to high and they are going to do the work themselves.That would be 2 permits ,1 for gas extension and 1 for shower valve.It is illegal for a home-owner to perform this work.
Knowing what I know and have in writing via e-mail ,what would you do?

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Joe ---International Code Council Member

Your plumbing & gas specialist proudly serving Oklahoma City OK, Moore, Warr-acres, Norman, Midwest City, Edmond, Bethany, Forest Park

Bob Kovacs

Nothing- either blowing up or flooding their house should be more than enough punishment for them.

AllAmerican

Forward the e-mail to your friendly Building and Safety Department. They will handle it from there.

22rifle

In similar situations I have done well by replying to the client in a manner that makes them feel like you are on their side.

In other words, educate them, empathize with them, make the case for the sale, and try for another close. It's a fine line between bashing the code (which I can't and won't do) and letting them know that you care about their frustration, but want to help them sort it all out.

Dunno if I make sense.

threaderman

That is done as I make the presentation and give the quote.If they aren't convinced permits and inspections protect all of us by the time I leave thier property,then they flat out don't care.

__________________
Joe ---International Code Council Member

Your plumbing & gas specialist proudly serving Oklahoma City OK, Moore, Warr-acres, Norman, Midwest City, Edmond, Bethany, Forest Park

22rifle

Fair enough.

Report 'em.

After you figure the job is done. Make it more painful so they learn their lesson well.

Splinter

Sorry, but I dont think it's your place to report them... Why is it your business if they A. hire someone else, B. Do it themselves? Fine, they arent legally allowed to work on their own home, I get it, but it's none of your business. Are you Big Brother, making sure the everyone complies with government regulations?

My personal opinion is that those who have said earlier in this thread to report them are just showing a little plumber solidarity, and not thinking it through. If I was that homeowner, guilty as I may be, I'd be pissed off at you for calling the town on me, and I'd make sure I got some revenge.

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- Alex

Long Island Remodeling Contractor

kevjob

Here in Denver HO can pull permits for anything. Makes alot of non pros pros and handy hakcs use this system to their advantage HO pulls permit hack installs everything upside and backwards.

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Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

bjg5240

I would think that reporting them would have more of a negative impact then a positive one. Besides, although they can't afford your prices doesn't mean that they wouldn't pass your name onto someone who is looking for a referral. I have had several past estimates (that I didn't get) that amounted to work with a friend of a friend type referral. Just something to think about.

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Quality Isn't Expensive, It's Priceless

masterk

Report them.
I feel that all legit tradesmen should stick together and report the ho who know's everything along with the un-licensed contractors who are taking money out of our pocket.
I can't compete with a un-licensed plumber who has no overhead.
I follow up on alot of jobs and have been reporting all that I feel are suspect.

22rifle

I'll tell you why. It's because when it comes to gas and plumbing, following the code can become a matter of life and death real quick like. If the law allowed the HO to pull a permit for this (and it should) then who cares if they do it themselves.

But the law doesn't. So if they do it themselves they could be playing with fire. Literally.

Has nothing to do with solidarity.

BTW, same goes for the HVAC system and electrical. Now if it was tile or sheetrock or whatever... who cares? Law says HO can't pull a permit but they do it anyways? Besides a crappy job, no one is going to get hurt if the HO makes a mess out of it.

Splinter

Heh, I've seen homeowners screw up their showers and flood their homes... I've seen homeowners who cant use a screwgun and the sheetrock fell off the ceiling. (Okay that was only one homeowner, but he's lucky he wasnt under it, it was a cathedral ceiling )

I understand what your saying, it's illegal and generally HO's shouldnt do it... I still dont think it's any of our business what someone else does in their own home. Plus, you dont really know what they're capable of. Heck, for all you know, Im some dumb hack remodeler who uses compression angle stops under homeowners sinks because Im afraid of the little blue torch.

Also, for all we know, the HO may have just been blowing off Threader for a different plumber and didnt want to tell him. By calling the town, Threader is really going to look like a fool when he's informed another plumber pulled the permits and did the job.

__________________
- Alex

Long Island Remodeling Contractor

rbsremodeling

So you think compression angle stops are a bad thing??

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joasis

Unless you have a municipal code stating otherwise, The only prohibition, including with natural gas lines is anything above grade can be legally done by the homeowner, if the HO occupies the property. (can't work on rentals or new construction). This isn't a hack stealing from you....ignore it...besides, they would win in court, and you will get the black eye for turning them in.

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threaderman

I had to leave for a few hours but was hoping this would stir the pot a little.I don't intend to turn them in or I would literally have to turn in about 1 in 5 which I figure 20% just try to probe you for info. and do it themselves.
I think the business would suffer a black eye as well,so even at the risk of somebody getting hurt I have to step back.I try to educate them as to the risks,but if someone is hell bent on doing something it's hard for a stranger to convince them otherwise.
Joasis,the gas is to be capped or plugged under the floor,which is considered under the home,which does not have ready access,which requires permitting in Oklahoma city.

__________________
Joe ---International Code Council Member

Your plumbing & gas specialist proudly serving Oklahoma City OK, Moore, Warr-acres, Norman, Midwest City, Edmond, Bethany, Forest Park

MALCO.New.York

DO NOT NARC! just because you lost one. If this were your competition who was the adversary, I would say, All is fair in Love and War! They are NOT your competition. What will happen is that they will screw it up and NOT call you or anyone they have dealt with for fear of embarrassment. Let go.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

22rifle

I agree with you.

MALCO.New.York

Too many persons today are quick to call in 'Big Brother' to fix their situations. These are the same persons who desire 'Smaller Governments'. I desire smaller Gov. influence and reach, but I NEVER call them for help! I wish we could be back in the Middle-Ages. Read my caption.'HANDLE IT'. I should add, 'Or Go Home'!

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

joasis

OKC may have that as a code or permit requirement, but enforcing it may be a different subject. I agree...it should be, but the State makes it pretty clear on above and below grade....and here, they pretty much leave it up to ONG to monitor what ever work is done.I will defer to you plumbers on that issue....I prefer to not have natural gas service in the new construction....simply a headache to deal with.

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Jason Whipple

I'll bet the H/O won't pull a permit anyway. Why would they? Who would know the difference?

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Jason E Whipple, General Manager
Historic House Restoration, Cincinnati, Ohio
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