What Would You Do?

 
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:03 AM   #1
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What Would You Do?


I got a referral from another contractor for a concrete guy since my guy retired. I called to have Him give an estimate but he was too busy to make it out. But if I knew the size. I told him I didnít know off hand but it wasnít bigger than 6x20 I told him to go off that size so at least I could give the client a worse case ( this is a client Iíve had for 15yrs and have a great relationship with)
Concrete dude sent over a price which I related to the client informing him that this was on the high side because sqft was less. He approved but I didnít sign the contract since I knew the number would change. So I tell the guy to proceed while I was out of town over the holiday and when I get back I get an invoice for the whole amount. I sent an email and asked him to revise since the size was actually 4x16. He said he isnít willing to and said his bid was a flat rate.

So I called him to talk and said maybe there was a misunderstanding and that I told him it was a guesstimate and we would circle back once we had exact dimensions. I told him since I felt there was a misunderstanding and I would like to have him as a sub that I wasnít expecting him to take off the whole amount but a credit should be given since he didnít do the sqft he proposed. He declined again.

At this point Iím trying to decide if I just pay him the whole amount and move along since he obviously isnít a person Of integrity I would work with or should I hold to my guns and give the amount based off the sqft?

Thoughts?


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Old 01-07-2018, 07:50 AM   #2
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Re: What Would You Do?


Pay him and move on...Not worth the effort.

I would advise that you get all future sub estimates in writing and be sure they scope out the jobs so there are no misunderstandings.

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Old 01-07-2018, 09:25 AM   #3
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Re: What Would You Do?


Most Redi-mix companies have a minimum yardage that they will send out. It would take just as long to finish 4x16 as it would 6x20. If he did a good job, then I would sit down and talk with him about his minimum charge for a small job and how his pricing works in general. Otherwise make sure you get a quote next time.

If he didn't do a good job then keep looking for a new sub.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:55 AM   #4
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Re: What Would You Do?


Agree with the above comments, not to mention you got yourself into this predicament because if you trying to get a price over the phone at least have the exact SQFT for the guy so you don't have to guess the numbers for the customer, the number what it will cost you and the profit you need to make.
Not to mention, when you get prices on the phone there is always "the price you got was over the phone, and when I got there I had to do this and that, etc".
When you tell the guy to do the job, you tell him to go look at the job and give you the number. Period.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:10 AM   #5
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Re: What Would You Do?


What's a "concrete guy"?
Is he a concrete supplier, or dies he do flat work?

Either way, your project is of a size that most suppliers, or finishers wouldn't even mess with.
One is about 1.5 yards, the other is .8 yards.

I would have been grateful to have someone do the work while you weren't even around!
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:21 AM   #6
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Re: What Would You Do?


All good advice. If the guy does good work try to keep him and figure out how to communicate better in the future. If he sucks, pay him and cut him loose.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:32 AM   #7
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Re: What Would You Do?


He showed up and did the work with out you having to hold his hand, and charged the price he told you he would, if he did quality work I would pay him and call him again next time I needed a concrete guy
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:53 AM   #8
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Re: What Would You Do?


Lemme guess you flopped that number to the client hoping it would come in under so you could scoop some margin?
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:45 AM   #9
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Re: What Would You Do?


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Lemme guess you flopped that number to the client hoping it would come in under so you could scoop some margin?


No with this client I do cost plus, so Iím not looking to low ball the concrete finisher.


The proposal was in writing and yes you are right I should have met with him, I was trying to get it knocked out in between the holiday for the client as they have a disabled child and it is an entry into the house. I couldnít get our schedules to line up.

Thanks guys for input. I think youíre probably right. He did a good job with little hand holding. His proposal in writing was quite on the high side, but I didnít bother questioning since I was under the impression that he was going to revise it once he had the exact sqft.


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Old 01-07-2018, 12:00 PM   #10
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Re: What Would You Do?


How in the blue F is a finisher supposed to charge different for a 4x16 vs a 6x20? The concrete cost is the same for that short load (virtually) and the finishers time is going to be almost the same. Those are both minimum jobs.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:26 PM   #11
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Re: What Would You Do?


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Originally Posted by jhark123 View Post
How in the blue F is a finisher supposed to charge different for a 4x16 vs a 6x20? The concrete cost is the same for that short load (virtually) and the finishers time is going to be almost the same. Those are both minimum jobs.


I hear what your saying. My old guy would hand mix smaller stuff and give me a price according to sqft. No I understand a finisher is paid by day. But this is a concrete contractor who demoed out the slab, hauled away, compacted, set rebar, poured, finished.

Like I said all good valid points. I should have taken longer to make sure we were on the same page with a new subcontractor.




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Old 01-07-2018, 12:42 PM   #12
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Re: What Would You Do?


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I hear what your saying. My old guy would hand mix smaller stuff and give me a price according to sqft. No I understand a finisher is paid by day. But this is a concrete contractor who demoed out the slab, hauled away, compacted, set rebar, poured, finished.

Like I said all good valid points. I should have taken longer to make sure we were on the same page with a new subcontractor.
That's what it boils down to... he gave you a price, and afterwards you gave the go-ahead to get it done while you were out of town without any change in details...

He's not unreasonable to expect the only price you agreed upon when you gave the go-ahead...

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Old 01-08-2018, 06:30 AM   #13
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Re: What Would You Do?


I think you've got plenty of good advice already. I also agree with them all.

He was right. I just dealt with this the other day. Not concrete, but similar. A competitor called me asking what he should charge per sq. ft. I explained all the variables to the job. The important part, there is a minimum charge. Doesn't matter how small, it still takes up a set amount of time.

Years ago, we finished 100 yard pours, in a day. It takes the same amount of time to finish a 10 yard pour. A more physical labor, but the time is still the same. Concrete cures at the same rate. It doesn't care how many yards are lying there.

Pay the guy. Be happy you got a good job. If the customer is unhappy, explain to them, the time it takes, not the yardage. Your other guy was charging too little. Probably.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:37 PM   #14
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Re: What Would You Do?


Quote:
I called to have Him give an estimate but he was too busy to make it out. But if I knew the size. I told him I didn’t know off hand but it wasn’t bigger than 6x20 I told him to go off that size so at least I could give the client a worse case ( this is a client I’ve had for 15yrs and have a great relationship with)
Concrete dude sent over a price which I related to the client informing him that this was on the high side because sqft was less.
It was YOU who told the client that the price would be lower. Concrete guy never said that. So if client is expecting a lower price that's on you. You just ASSumed and if you would have asked the concrete guy if the size is a little smaller would the price be the same you would have known.

-Hal

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Old 01-09-2018, 03:29 PM   #15
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Re: What Would You Do?


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Originally Posted by ComRemodel View Post
It was YOU who told the client that the price would be lower. Concrete guy never said that. So if client is expecting a lower price that's on you. You just ASSumed and if you would have asked the concrete guy if the size is a little smaller would the price be the same you would have known.

-Hal


Yes thanks for restating what everyone else said. I make no claim that their wasnít assumption on my part. I should have had better conversation with him. Everyone was gearing up for holiday so the conversation was short. I didnít discuss a lower price with owner. I just try to take care of my clients. I have had further discussion with sub and have paid him in full with the conversation of working in the future and being on the same page.

Thanks all for the insight.

Btw it was $5500 for the 6x20 8Ē thick, he did demo existing 4Ē slab and haul away. Like I said it was on the HIGH side


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Old 01-09-2018, 03:30 PM   #16
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Re: What Would You Do?


What they said!!!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:14 PM   #17
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Re: What Would You Do?


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Yes thanks for restating what everyone else said. I make no claim that their wasnít assumption on my part. I should have had better conversation with him. Everyone was gearing up for holiday so the conversation was short. I didnít discuss a lower price with owner. I just try to take care of my clients. I have had further discussion with sub and have paid him in full with the conversation of working in the future and being on the same page.

Thanks all for the insight.

Btw it was $5500 for the 6x20 8Ē thick, he did demo existing 4Ē slab and haul away. Like I said it was on the HIGH side


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Thatís almost $50/sq ft. It would be about $12 up here, throw in an extra $200 for small load charge. California really does suck.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:26 PM   #18
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Thatís almost $50/sq ft. It would be about $12 up here, throw in an extra $200 for small load charge. California really does suck.


Yep good olí california
Actually like $85 a sqft since he only did 4x16.
He did include demo though at $2k
So it would be almost $55 a sqft




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Old 01-09-2018, 10:07 PM   #19
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Re: What Would You Do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tkrrox View Post
Yes thanks for restating what everyone else said. I make no claim that their wasn’t assumption on my part. I should have had better conversation with him. Everyone was gearing up for holiday so the conversation was short. I didn’t discuss a lower price with owner. I just try to take care of my clients. I have had further discussion with sub and have paid him in full with the conversation of working in the future and being on the same page.

Thanks all for the insight.

Btw it was $5500 for the 6x20 8” thick, he did demo existing 4” slab and haul away. Like I said it was on the HIGH side


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I had more than $1 million worth of concrete work done by subs and never paid more than $6 per sq ft with demo, or was it 16 x 20 x 6 = $1920 and even add another 50% = $2880. A long way from $5500.

I do many jobs that are 4ft x 30ft = 120 sq ft with no demo and I never paid more than $1,000. It usually takes 1 worker less than 8 hours and maybe he spends $400 for a ready mixed trailer.

I never did a job in my life without getting a firm price because I always lost every fist fight. It takes only a few seconds to get someone to give you their price. Also, any sub contractor who works without a price commitment is a fool and deserves to get the short end of the stick.
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:20 PM   #20
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Re: What Would You Do?


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I had more than $1 million worth of concrete work done by subs and never paid more than $6 per sq ft with demo, or was it 16 x 20 x 6 = $1920 and even add another 50% = $2880. A long way from $5500.

I do many jobs that are 4ft x 30ft = 120 sq ft with no demo and I never paid more than $1,000. It usually takes 1 worker less than 8 hours and maybe he spends $400 for a ready mixed trailer.

I never did a job in my life without getting a firm price because I always lost every fist fight. It takes only a few seconds to get someone to give you their price. Also, any sub contractor who works without a price commitment is a fool and deserves to get the short end of the stick.


Like I said I thought it was high but new the size would change so didnít bring it up thinking I would discuss. My shortfall was assumption. My previous guy would just measure and bill accordingly. I purposely didnít sign because I didnít want to be locked in since the size was not exactly know. But again ultimately I assumed everyone would do like I would. (If I gave a bid to hang 10 doors and there was only 8, I would never expect to have contract amount paid since I didnít do 10 door). That is where I will use this as a learning experience.


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