What the #&@! is going on with employee wages? - Page 4 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

BamBamm5144 · 10-30-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Never assume they have a vehicle. I have been hiring guys for twenty years, and always put in the ad "must have transportation" Still, guys will call that don't have even a license! The last time I ran an ad, I was talking to the guy, and I asked about his car/truck, and he told me he had a bicycle!! I told him " So, your gonna ride your bike 40 miles each way to and from work in the snow?? Guess he hadn't thought it through.

hahah now thats funny. I guess what I meant to say that I assume they have a way to work and back. I have had guys ask if the job is on the busline. Sometimes I am so dumbfounded at the questions guys ask I don't even know how to answer. I once hired a guy who seemed real legit and said he had his own tools. He showed up with one of those little kid hammers and an 8 ft measuring tape, the ones people give you with their business names on it. Some guys I am 10 years younger than and still can not understand their thinking but I have come to learn thats how it is in the trades

J F · 10-30-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I couldn't tell you one way or the other if it would be in regard to a sub, but I can guarantee you that if you placed that ad on craigslist and specifically stated it was a sub position, you'd have a sh!t load of guys calling to do the work in a heart beat.

The sad truth is I think employees have a better handle on what they need to make then subs do.

I missed this post mike....he could post the same ad here for $15 and get swamped...

katoman · 10-30-2009, 06:21 PM

Whew!! Just read this whole thread. As a carpenter/contractor in Ontario, the OP was looking for an employee. 30-35 is a good wage for lead carpenter here. For that I would show up driving any vehicle with BASIC tools.

If he wants the whole package, truck, all tools, etc. then as Knothead said, it goes to around 55/hr.

Some other misc. stuff -

No need to invade Canada, you already own it.

In Canada carpentry is a licenced trade. This simply states the person is qualified. In no way does it make him a business. Here, typically the employer requires the carpenter to have this licence.

The simple answer is if the cheque is made out to an individuals name, he is an employee. It it's made out to a company name, he's a sub.

Off Topic question -

It was determined that if America had spent the billions it spent on the Iraq war on developing the tar sands projects in Alberta (which are owned by American companies) it would have resulted in more oil production than that which comes from the Middle East.

What's with that?

Heritage - did you find a guy? Let us know, eh

Grumpy · 10-30-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinsco

You are advertising for a licensed contractor with their own van and tools and you wonder why $35 per hour was met with such hostility?

EDIT: Did you post this on Craigslist?

I agree. SOunds like you are looking for a sub contractor, not employee. If subcontractor, rates are low, if employee rates are high... Why not get your own licenses?

J F · 10-30-2009, 07:54 PM

I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't read closely enough

katoman · 10-30-2009, 08:09 PM

I think a lot of the confusion in this thread came from the difference in "license" between Canada and the US.

As I posted before, here Carpentry is a licensed trade. For us here in the OP's area, I think it was clear that he was looking for an employee.

I'm still wanting to know if he found what he was looking for.

And thanks to all who posted lots of informative info on rates and wages throughout the US. It is always good to know what going rates are.

Zinsco · 10-30-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katoman

It was determined that if America had spent the billions it spent on the Iraq war on developing the tar sands projects in Alberta (which are owned by American companies) it would have resulted in more oil production than that which comes from the Middle East.

What's with that?

We're not in Iraq for the oil, we're there because they attacked the world trade center! It's no different than when the Nazi's bombed Pearl Harbor, it's about pay back! Yeah!

shanekw1 · 10-30-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinsco

We're not in Iraq for the oil, we're there because they attacked the world trade center! It's no different than when the Nazi's bombed Pearl Harbor, it's about pay back! Yeah!

Chris G · 10-30-2009, 08:23 PM

I went to your site. You look like a big outfit judging from the pics. Leave it up to the HR dept to figure it out and stop sweating the details!!!

concretemasonry · 10-30-2009, 09:48 PM

Zinsco -

The Nazis bombed Pearl Harbor when they had their hands full? I think it was the Japanese.

Wages are just a balance between supply/demand and skill/bodies. The cream usually rises and the quality can be determined before you make a mistake.

If someone wants to much, then they will back down until someone else recognizes that they have talent and ability to make more money. If you don't take the time to screen, that is your problem when it comes to hiring.

Now it is easy to hire cheap and difficult to find the good future employees.

Heritage · 10-31-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katoman

I think a lot of the confusion in this thread came from the difference in "license" between Canada and the US.

As I posted before, here Carpentry is a licensed trade. For us here in the OP's area, I think it was clear that he was looking for an employee.

I'm still wanting to know if he found what he was looking for.

And thanks to all who posted lots of informative info on rates and wages throughout the US. It is always good to know what going rates are.

Thanks for chiming in Northerner! I was having a hard time convincing them on the License issue.

No I haven't found anyone yet. My biggest qualm being that, as I read through the resumes and my general overall experience with some carpenters is that they just don't get it.

Your resume is essentially your "first impression" on an employer. These guys throw resumes together like as if they had 5 mins to kill. I just can't wrap my head around their mentality, and to me...it's very telling of their overall attitude and professionalism (or lack thereof).

Why do most carpenters think that Professionalism= showing up with tools. There's a myriad of other factors that makes you "professional", on top of all your experience.

Like someone else pointed out here, it's a sense of entitlement that is just plain wrong.

I submit my resume every time I go out for an estimate. Maybe some of you guys get away with scribbling a number on the back of a business card or just "throwing a number at the HO" and leaving your business card. But up here, in this economy, in my experience...that doesn't fly. HO's are shopping around and as I walk in through the door there's another contractor walking out, and as I'm walking out there's another walking in.

I spend a few hours bidding on a small job (kitchen, bathroom). When I walk in through the door, I have my business card in hand, spend 1/2 -1 hr with the HO, show them our license info on the way out, then spend a couple of hours building their budget before I get one red cent from them. Maybe I'll get it, maybe I won't.

But I'll tell you what, most of my clients tell me that my company simply operates at a higher level than my competition. Why is that? Because I take the time. First impressions are paramount. Maybe those other contractors are just as good, if not maybe even better. It doesn't matter because they couldn't sell THEMSELVES to the client. HO's are hiring YOU long before they are hiring your company.

When a HO is making a 20-100k decision, they want to see more than a number on the back of a card.

Conversely, most employers are hiring YOU long before they are hiring your skills/knowledge/ability. If you can't demonstrate a level of attention and professionalism in a resume then everything else (your skills/knowledge/ability) are nothing more than a bunch of words put together to fill up dead space on a Word page.

So we keep on truckin

I hear what some of you are saying, the good ones are out there...it's our job to find them.

J F · 10-31-2009, 11:06 AM

plus... you've been on tv!

Heritage · 10-31-2009, 11:23 AM

http://www.wnetwork.com/Shows/Take-T...wSchedule.aspx

Next new episode is airing this Monday @ 10 p.m. in my area on the W network.

It's syndicated and airs in 7 countries (U.S. included) so check your local area for show times

.

Framer53 · 10-31-2009, 11:53 AM

<<<<<<<<<No I haven't found anyone yet. My biggest qualm being that, as I read through the resumes and my general overall experience with some carpenters is that they just don't get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Actually I think you are the one not getting it.
A true carpenter has very little if any time for these niceties. Resune? That is for a white coller job.
I have had both, a white collar and a carpenter job. Trust me, you are looking for a carbon copy of youtself, which may or may not exist. Remember this, while you are looking, you are overlooking many individuals that would work out fine.

It sounds like a lisence is required to do the work, so why mention it?

I have hired men that look like death warmed over, that with a little nugging to dress or act better, turn out to be very good craftsman.

Even if you are carefull in your selection process, you are still going to have to hire and fire a few to get what you want!

CookeCarpentry · 10-31-2009, 12:03 PM

I don't know about a resume. I like to use a simple application form, with a place for past employment and references.

I dabbled in the white collar environment years ago, and it's night and day. I don't know if any carpenter I have ever worked with (or for, or employed) has had a resume...

Tinstaafl · 10-31-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CookeCarpentry

I don't know if any carpenter I have ever worked with (or for, or employed) has had a resume...

Agreed. In most cases, the truly excellent carpenters have spent much more time on learning their trade than on "book larnin'". I've known people in the construction field who have or are capable of writing some very good resumes, but generally they aren't actual tool users.

Mike Finley · 10-31-2009, 02:53 PM

Why is a fellow tradesman / business owner / industry brother who is looking to hire someone at a market rate, who obviously runs his company in a legitimate fashion, and who's only 'crime' might be wanting as high a quality employee as possible... getting so much flack?

JumboJack · 10-31-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretemasonry

Zinsco -

The Nazis bombed Pearl Harbor when they had their hands full? I think it was the Japanese.

+ YouTube Video

Framer53 · 10-31-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

Why is a fellow tradesman / business owner / industry brother who is looking to hire someone at a market rate, who obviously runs his company in a legitimate fashion, and who's only 'crime' might be wanting as high a quality employee as possible... getting so much flack?

Easy, MIke, I was trying to suggest that he might be setting his sights or hopes a little high.

Heritage · 10-31-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Framer53

Easy, MIke, I was trying to suggest that he might be setting his sights or hopes a little high.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but there's a big problem with negative stereotypes towards people in our industry. Attitudes like yours, and those of some others on this forum only drive them down further.

"Good carpenters don't have time for those niceties (resume)"???

To you that's a "nicety"?

A résumé is a document that contains a summary of relevant job experience and education. The résumé is typically the first item that a potential employer encounters regarding the job seeker and is typically used to screen applicants, often followed by an interview, when seeking employment.

It's like some of you carpenters are allergic to formal business rules/practices/norms.

It's not the resume that's the issue, it's the mentality. I don't like labels, but this whole "blue collar" "white collar" stuff has really gone into your heads.

And we wonder why people look down on us? This is a small part of the reason why.

I don't know about you guys, but almost all of my clients are what you guys are so willing to call "white collars". These "white collars" live in the world of "white collardom". THEY have rules/guidelines/ediquettes/procedures/practices/tastes/standards/etc. FOR THEIR LIVES!

So when they go to hire a contractor, and the guy "bidding" on their job, does little more than show up, mumble a few words, throws a number then speeds off THEY think..."Well, w.t.f.? In MY profession, in MY line of work, if I want to bid on a job I have to go through ABCDEFG, and spend X number of hours, dress a certain way, conduct myself in such a way, do this and that in a certain way BUT "This" guy shows up smelling like a bad habit, 15 mins late, hands me no paper work, makes it seem like HE'S doing ME a favour then splits. Well F#$! THAT guy. Contractors are MORONS!

Being professional is a part of being in business. A resume, is a part of being professional. Good luck with all that!