What The #&@! Is Going On With Employee Wages?

Zinsco

The OP is in Canada.

shanekw1

$35 cad = $32.67 usd.

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Mike Finley

I couldn't tell you one way or the other if it would be in regard to a sub, but I can guarantee you that if you placed that ad on craigslist and specifically stated it was a sub position, you'd have a sh!t load of guys calling to do the work in a heart beat.

The sad truth is I think employees have a better handle on what they need to make then subs do.

J F

I think what some of us (at least myself) thought, that from your post, you were possibly trying to hire a contractor, and not an employee, for $32.54 and hour, and bitchin' about how crazy it was for someone to price themselves at 65-75 as a sole prop, running a business....which is NOT crazy, expensive, etc.

J F

Also, how does the can. govt. look at the sub vs. employee thing? Is it similar to what the irs does here?

ARI001

Mike,
I'm not disagreeing with you that for an employee that is a good rate. If you go back to my original posts the numbers I quoted where in line with what you just posted for this country. I got those numbers from the state, which is probably a little more reliable then the sources you quoted as it is based on tax return information supplied from the IRS. The ENR wages are the average of open shop, union, and prevailing wage including benefits. The conversion factor for his area was 1.245 multiply that by the wages from my previous post (first page of this thread) and that is how I arrived at those figures.

The confusion came from the license thing. I think you would agree that $35.00 per hour is low for a billing rate for a contracting business. The OP explained the licensing requirement which appears to be different then a contractors license.

J F

so, it is an employee....why would 2-3 people out of hundreds (?) of replies even bother the op?

he probably got a few wackos willing to polish his knob for him too, but does he bring that up? nooooo

Mike Finley

That's just wrong.

J F

we won't know that for sure until the op tells us the rates they wanted

shanekw1

Great, not even 8AM and already a coffee rinse through the nose.

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ARI001

double post

Zinsco

I wish America would attack and invade Canada. As an American, I have to wonder why we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, 2 dusty, filthy countries with nothing to offer. Canada, on the other hand, is a beautiful country with nice people who mostly speak English. Plus it's close, we could walk there. I've always admired Canada and liked the Canadian people I've met, it's a pity that we haven't attacked them.

ARI001

TheBuildingFirm

so you're the guy who posted the ad?

DaVinciRemodel

This thread has sat idle since 9:00 this morning - I was really into it. I think a GC up in north CT that posted that he was dropping his rate to $20/hr a few weeks ago - is either packing or looking-up the requirements for Canada's carpenters.

At $35/hr and 2080 hrs per year I thought about it.

Guys chime in - lets not let the facts get in the way of a good discussion!

By the way $35 is too rich for my blood here in Denver and I sell the very high end!

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Heritage

Just so you know I wasn't kidding...here are the emails the guys sent me:

#1- I made a rant in my ad basically saying- If you're going to send me a resume littered with spelling and grammatical errors then you're shooting yourself in the foot. So this guy sent me a reply entitled "compensay shun"

Rant man....If your idea of fair return is $30-$35/hr. i'm not in the least surprised that thu awd speling airer kreeps in tu the massages yuz get returned. That would be the starting point for a journeyman carp or insult; depending on which end of the pointy stick one happens to be on and when the vehicle and tools are added in; yup closer to the insult end o' the stick...While i appreciate that you want to make as much profit as possible for as little output; don't insult your intended target with a 1970's era wage base. The going rate for a man with vehicle, tools and talent is a lot closer to $75 than $30...Best of luck wit duh gie wit da hamma....D

#2 guy

Dear Sir\Madam,
In order to acquire an "exceptional" candidate, as you have stated, it would require an exceptional salary. 30-35.00 per hour does cover the cost of what you are looking for in a Lead Carpenter/ Site supervisor. For your info, site supervisors are paid more than you are offering, I know because I am and have been a site supervisor for many years and a carpenter as well. I have been renovating and building additions for more then 15 years. I have a vehicle and trailer fully stocked with the proper tools and miscellaneous material. For this I receive 65.00 per hour and not 30-35.00 per hour.
In short, if you want real, get real.

Regards,
Luciano

-I'm looking for an employee not a sub...for the record.
-No, I still haven't found a suitable person.
-It actually scares you thinking of hiring someone, the more resumes you see the more hopeless you become.

But EVERYBODY wants to make the big money...

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Toronto General Contractor-Renovation Blog-Contractor on Facebook-Renovation on twitter-Contractor Youtube

knothead

The Canadian economy is no where near as bad as the US. I am in Canada and I am busier then last year, but i am more established and I was always willing to do the small little jobs that no one else would touch when the economy was going full tilt. Those same little jobs are now paying off with larger jobs. 3 differnt HO I repaired doors for I have now done 3 full bath gut and redo's.

Everyone can quote stats, they are usaully only a sample of the entire market they are behind current marker condtions.

BC is seeing similar growth as Ontario.
But $20 an hour gets you a 2-3 year exp carpenter
$25-30 get 8 plus years
$30 ish layout/second in command
Run a job site $35
Bring your tools and that a full kit table say nail gun jackhammers etc $55 plus or a sizable tool allowance.
BUT most companies have their own tool sheds for each job.

There are always exceptions to the rule where guys with lots of experience will work for peanuts I see it all the time and that is what the vultures/CL people look for.

We have the olympics here and there is lots of gov't money flowing and the GC's are still trying to cut pays back even tho the contracts are signed. They will still get full price plus extras as gov't projects do but they will still tell the workers that they have to cut costs meaning they take pay cuts while the GC gets a new truck.

Carpenters/contractors need to stop cutting their own throats to make a sale. Learn how to close a sale so you can charge enougth to pay your self and have some profit left over at the end of the project.

I been lurking here for some time now and when things were good everyone seemed full of themselves spending money on big trucks new tools toys gadets instead of advertising/websites/passing out business cards.
I had lady call Monday that called me from a biz card that I dropped off at her home TWO years ago. ITs still only a partial day job for $500 but it is still a paid day instead of sitting on my ass reading about other people working. Not bad as I took 1 hour of my time and passed out about 200 cards that cost me a couple of pennies to have made. I think that a good return on my inital investment.

You guys in the US seem to make and excuse that the illegal worker/companies steeling your work but many just seem to let it slide. Not report it not tell the people who need to be told that illegal work is being done. INS used to respond to reports of people working illegally from what I been told, that is what they are there for. If they do not know about it they cannot do anything about it. It may not be PC but what good does it do when the bailif comes to repo your truck/house what ever because you are not working. If I lived in Calfornia I would pay some college student to drive around to jobsites with a truck that had magnetic INS stickers on it and see how fast they clear out.

Now that I have gone off topic some. Everyone has a price that they think that are worth, and given time workers will always want more money and companies will always want more out their workers for less money.

The OP probally should have been more specific in what tools the employeee would be needing what fits in a tool belt or a 20 foot trailer stocked to the back door.
"promises of training" If they are busy no one is going to get time for training and if they are slow layoffs.

BamBamm5144

I assume some of those emails you got were from guys thinking you were looking for a sub. When a post reads must have own vehicle and be licensed, that is the first thing I usually think of. For an employee 32 dollars an hour is quite exceptional I think. When I post an ad I don't say anything about must have your own vehicle, I already assume you do otherwise why would you apply to a job you can not get to. I think if you reword the post, it will change. Also, remember this is craigslist. I had a guy who was a "lead" for another company show up to my job and was scared to be on the roof. 98 times out of 100 you are not going to find any employees that fit your standards.

Warren

Never assume they have a vehicle. I have been hiring guys for twenty years, and always put in the ad "must have transportation" Still, guys will call that don't have even a license! The last time I ran an ad, I was talking to the guy, and I asked about his car/truck, and he told me he had a bicycle!! I told him " So, your gonna ride your bike 40 miles each way to and from work in the snow?? Guess he hadn't thought it through.

gregj

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

When you say you're looking for someone with a truck/van and tools that leaves a whole lot open to interpretation.

Some guys are thinking they need a truck/van load of tools and others are thinking that what's in their tool belt is good enough. Some are thinking you just want someone that will get to the job site reliably and others think you also want to put an extra 20,000 miles of their gas and vehicle wear and tear on their vehicle picking up your supplies

If your ad was clear on what tools you want the employee to provide and what your expectations are for the use of the employees vehicle then it might reduce the confusion.

One of the responses indicated you were looking for a "site supervisor" so perhaps the job description was also not clear.