What the #&@! is going on with employee wages? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Heritage · 10-27-2009, 07:34 PM

I recently posted an ad for a lead carpenter. I was very specific in my requirements and some of the main ones were:

-Transportation (preference to those with own truck/van)
-Own tools
-Valid license to practice trade OR ability to obtain

I'm leaving the other requirements out (knowledge, clean, professional, meticulous, etc.).

I even left a rant saying if you don't meet the requirements then don't waste my time, I'm looking for someone exceptional. What I offered:

-Above industry standard wages
-A very professional and organized work environment
-The promise of growth within the company
-The promise of paid training/seminars/work shops and continuing education programs
-A very supportive and collaborative approach to every project
-Use of work trucks in future.
-$30-35/hr, negotiable.

So a bunch of people replied, but what got me was 3 different folks that replied basically saying...you're effin nuts, you want all that then you better get real...try $75/hr...another one $65/hr. Basically lambasting me saying that what I offered was an insult...

.

WHAT THE

?

I've been a carpenter, a site super for an award winning custom home builder where I built numberous multi-million dollar homes, featured in magazines, then a PM working for different high end companies, handled 3-4 jobs at a time grossing multi millions of dollars worth of projects a year, I've been on television, I hold all the licenses, I'm a ministry certified designer, licensed home inspector, licensed building renovator, on and on and I have NEVER and I mean NEVER made 156k/year working for someone else...never mind as a ****** CARPENTER!!!

At my peak I made almost half of that...AT MY PEAK!

One guy said you're offering 1970's wages.

If today's rate for a lead carpenter is $75/hr then I better pack my bags and close this shop.

Am I that much out of tune here? Because I'll tell you what...out of the 20 other replies I got not ONE of them fit the bill.

How much are you guys paying your leads?

XanadooLTD · 10-27-2009, 07:42 PM

I think they are looking at union wages. I think its like walking away with 40 an hour but benefits makes it about 75. doesn't sound that off. I have mine at around 20 though. No complaints, but they struggle. Times are different. Everyone thinks they are owed something. i would have loved a job making 20 dollars an hour in the past.

**genecarp** · 10-27-2009, 07:48 PM

You just had a run of bad luck, keep at it, with what you are offering you should them lining up, especially in this economy, GMOD

hammer11379 · 10-27-2009, 07:52 PM

Post that ad here in Detroit, You'll have tons of people ready to pack up and move.

bmaurice · 10-27-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genecarp

You just had a run of bad luck, keep at it, with what you are offering you should them lining up, especially in this economy, GMOD

I actually think the economy makes it harder to find good guys. Yes there are more applying but a % of them have bean laid and looking and apply for anything regardless of their knowledge, and you always have the high % of dead beats. just more people to weed through.

**framerman** · 10-27-2009, 08:00 PM

Well, geez Heritage. Carpenters are people too!

If they were so bothered by that, I'm not sure why they would contact you. I don't go around contacting all the contractors offering $12/hr on Craigslist and chewing them a new one.

Heritage · 10-27-2009, 10:07 PM

Thanks to all those that replied.

I honestly thought I was losing my mind. And that's just it, that 3 guys went out of their way to send me a paragraph long azz chewing when I thought "I'm looking for top notch and they're gonna get paid top notch".

I got one guy I pay 30/hr too and he's a super-star. It's a pleasure to put on the belt along side him because we just breeze through jobs and we both know exactly what the other is thinking...lol,...you should see our job site "material lists" written on 2x's. You'll need a kgb code breaker to figure them out.

But I digress, thanks for bringing sanity back into my life

.

The other replies are dreadful though, nice cover letters (some) but relevant experience tells me they barely know which end of the hammer to hold. Back to life

Zinsco · 10-27-2009, 10:23 PM

You are advertising for a licensed contractor with their own van and tools and you wonder why $35 per hour was met with such hostility?

EDIT: Did you post this on Craigslist?

OGStilts · 10-27-2009, 10:39 PM

Geez, I guess things must be better in Toronto than the rest of the world.

ARI001 · 10-28-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinsco

You are advertising for a licensed contractor with their own van and tools and you wonder why $35 per hour was met with such hostility?

EDIT: Did you post this on Craigslist?

That's how it reads to me also.

To the OP:
If you want an employee try rewording your listing a little to reflect that. Your listing implies the person will be treated as an independent contractor. If that is the case the wage is low. If this is not the case the wage sounds about right for your area ($32.22 is about the average base rate in your area based on the wage charts), however you should also include (note in your add) an allowance for tool maintenance and replacement if you expect more than the basic tools (i.e. hand tools, circular saw, miter saw, etc.) and reimbursement for fasteners, blades, etc.

J F · 10-28-2009, 09:13 AM

And it's canadian $...what is that, like $2.25 american?

I'm with the last couple of posters in regards to whether you're actually trying to hire an employee. It sounds like you might be trying to hire a contractor...as an employee

So, which is it?

J F · 10-28-2009, 09:15 AM

No, if you're hiring an employee (taxes/benefits, etc), then something's very odd in the great white north.

J F · 10-28-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage

I've been on television

BKFranks · 10-28-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage

I recently posted an ad for a lead carpenter. I was very specific in my requirements and some of the main ones were:

-Transportation (preference to those with own truck/van)
-Own tools
-Valid license to practice trade OR ability to obtain

I'm leaving the other requirements out (knowledge, clean, professional, meticulous, etc.).

I even left a rant saying if you don't meet the requirements then don't waste my time, I'm looking for someone exceptional. What I offered:

-Above industry standard wages
-A very professional and organized work environment
-The promise of growth within the company
-The promise of paid training/seminars/work shops and continuing education programs
-A very supportive and collaborative approach to every project
-Use of work trucks in future.
-$30-35/hr, negotiable.

So a bunch of people replied, but what got me was 3 different folks that replied basically saying...you're effin nuts, you want all that then you better get real...try $75/hr...another one $65/hr. Basically lambasting me saying that what I offered was an insult...

.

WHAT THE

?

I've been a carpenter, a site super for an award winning custom home builder where I built numberous multi-million dollar homes, featured in magazines, then a PM working for different high end companies, handled 3-4 jobs at a time grossing multi millions of dollars worth of projects a year, I've been on television, I hold all the licenses, I'm a ministry certified designer, licensed home inspector, licensed building renovator, on and on and I have NEVER and I mean NEVER made 156k/year working for someone else...never mind as a ****** CARPENTER!!!

At my peak I made almost half of that...AT MY PEAK!

One guy said you're offering 1970's wages.

If today's rate for a lead carpenter is $75/hr then I better pack my bags and close this shop.

Am I that much out of tune here? Because I'll tell you what...out of the 20 other replies I got not ONE of them fit the bill.

How much are you guys paying your leads?

I would just ignore them. I'm not in your area, but here $30-35 for a lead sounds good for residential work, but with the amount of people out of work contractors can find someone for less. Average is about $25 for a journeyman carpenter. Here, even a union commercial carpenter doesn't make $75 an hour. They make $38 + $9 in benefits, or $47 total.
Now, all the companies that are looking for carpenters advertise less than $20. At least that's what I've been seeing.

ARI001 · 10-28-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J F

No, if you're hiring an employee (taxes/benefits, etc), then something's very odd in the great white north.

What I quoted was for a lead carpenter (considered highly skilled) capable of running the job and acting as a PM (do material take offs, oversee employees, handle change orders, do scheduling if applicable, lay outs, work with subs, etc) at the same time. The rate for the average skilled carpenter would top out at $24.00. The average base rate (not billing) in this country was $25.86 as of two weeks ago. That is the national average that includes prevailing wage jobs and union wage jobs. These are all just average wage figures meant to give an approximation of going wages. Obviously there are many other factors that go into determining an employees wage.

Sorry just wanted to clarify a bit.

J F · 10-28-2009, 11:18 AM

sorry ari (does that rhyme?

), I was replying to the op...I needed to clarify

Cdat · 10-28-2009, 11:35 AM

If no benefits are included, those are low wages. And, just a comment here, you do all that crap you brag about but don't make over 150,000?

bwalley · 10-28-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdat

If no benefits are included, those are low wages. And, just a comment here, you do all that crap you brag about but don't make over 150,000?

I am sure if that ad was posted in Michigan, he would have 1,000 or more people trying to get that job the 1st day the ad went out, he would get tha kind of response if he posted that ad in Florida.

The license thing is odd for an employee though.

Mike Finley · 10-28-2009, 03:43 PM

I'd love to audit the books of all the jamoke owners on here who pipe up how $30-35 an hour for a lead carpenter is a low wage.

Quite frankly, please go F-yourselves, you're not fooling anybody.

To make it double funny, not only is $35 an hour almost 50% higher than the national average, it's not as if unemployement wasn't at almost 10% and more specifically construction unemployement not at almost 19%.

Give me a break you freak'n ass clowns.

Heritage, it doesn't matter what hourly wage you offer in an employment ad, you still always get a couple of idiots who will respond the way you have found. I've heard every idiot in the world by now when it comes to this.

Zinsco · 10-28-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

I'd love to audit the books of all the jamoke owners on here who pipe up how $30-35 an hour for a lead carpenter is a low wage.

Quite frankly, please go F-yourselves, you're not fooling anybody.

To make it double funny, not only is $35 an hour almost 50% higher than the national average, it's not as if unemployement wasn't at almost 10% and more specifically construction unemployement not at almost 19%.

Give me a break you freak'n ass clowns.

Heritage, it doesn't matter what hourly wage you offer in an employment ad, you still always get a couple of idiots who will respond the way you have found. I've heard every idiot in the world by now when it comes to this.

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