To UNION Or Not To UNION

Originally Posted by westernexplorer

He supports the right of labor to organize for safety and working conditions and the ethical treanment to ensure government laws are followed, but not wages..?

You said Business has the right to set wages, your wrong. The market place sets wages. Labor is just like any other commodity, the greater the supply the lower the price.

This is why the Elite, Conservatives AND Liberal's want to welcome all the illegal's into the US and tell everyone "how much we need them to do all the jobs American's won't do". This is done to enrich the top 1% in this country. See, I'm a businessman, just not one of the top 1%. I sir, support the American people and as a US Military Veteran myself, it pains me greatly, to see American's displaced by people who shouldn't be here to begin with.

Carpentry, roofing, carpet installing, painting, use to all be good jobs that paid a living wage and you could raise a family on those jobs. Now, almost without exception the only American's on residential jobs are the plumbers and electrician's, because the journeyman are required by State law to be licensed and the test is only given in English in my State.

You sir, are the one living with your head in the sand. You think after we continue to drive this country to her knee's that the world will be waiting to help us. We are on our own, and the sooner you and the rest of the Globalization crowd figure that out, we will all be better off.

I pay my people the top wage and provide a retirement for them and they produce a quality installation. I see these people in the grocery stores and the malls. I know there families and most of there kids. I sir, don't have the stomach to be a part of destroying the future of America for there kids or my own. If that means, I make a little less money every year, than so be it. You can call me whatever you want to, but I will leave this world with a clean consense, knowing I did everything I could to save this country for future generations. Which, by the way includes my children.

There is a difference between making a decent profit and being down right greedy. We are all in business to make money. I don't operate a non-profit company. However, I can look my employee's in the eye and without question, they know they are being paid the highest wage and benefit package in the industry and they work hard for it.

Originally Posted by westernexplorer

He supports the right of labor to organize for safety and working conditions and the ethical treanment to ensure government laws are followed, but not wages..?

You said Business has the right to set wages, your wrong. The market place sets wages. Labor is just like any other commodity, the greater the supply the lower the price.

This is why the Elite, Conservatives AND Liberal's want to welcome all the illegal's into the US and tell everyone "how much we need them to do all the jobs American's won't do". This is done to enrich the top 1% in this country. See, I'm a businessman, just not one of the top 1%. I sir, support the American people and as a US Military Veteran myself, it pains me greatly, to see American's displaced by people who shouldn't be here to begin with.

Carpentry, roofing, carpet installing, painting, use to all be good jobs that paid a living wage and you could raise a family on those jobs. Now, almost without exception the only American's on residential jobs are the plumbers and electrician's, because the journeyman are required by State law to be licensed and the test is only given in English in my State.

You sir, are the one living with your head in the sand. You think after we continue to drive this country to her knee's that the world will be waiting to help us. We are on our own, and the sooner you and the rest of the Globalization crowd figure that out, we will all be better off.

I pay my people the top wage and provide a retirement for them and they produce a quality installation. I see these people in the grocery stores and the malls. I know there families and most of there kids. I sir, don't have the stomach to be a part of destroying the future of America for there kids or my own. If that means, I make a little less money every year, than so be it. You can call me whatever you want to, but I will leave this world with a clean consense, knowing I did everything I could to save this country for future generations. Which, by the way includes my children.

There is a difference between making a decent profit and being down right greedy. We are all in business to make money. I don't operate a non-profit company. However, I can look my employee's in the eye and without question, they know they are being paid the highest wage and benefit package in the industry and they work hard for it.

Originally Posted by Kuba

Thats ok tho, it was sarcasm... like the jabs I just took right?If someone was so bold to disagree with something i said, then do so and move the fk on. You want to shoot rude comments you'll get nothing but the same in return. Obviously you are just some fkn asshole that has to disagree with someones opinion by bad mouthing them. No?? Are you that good at pointing out peoples flaws all the time? Or are you another one of those guys that uses the internet as a woobie/firewall? As for my writting, my interface is messed up and its throwing everything into one paragraph.. I think its actually my wives laptop thats messed up, wow and Im using that right now...Im not here to win a spelling contest if you so happen to not like to see what I read, put me on ignore you fkn panzy ass.Im not here to make friends with individuals who contribute nothing to this web site.Guess, its a leason for me.. Keep polotics on a political forum.. This is for builders. I can find a million of "ARI001" on different sites..They have nothing to say to contribute to your comments, they just like to pick out your grammer or spelling or whatever makes them feel better than you =) God knows every real contractor on this site will tell you no one would disrespect someone else like this in real life without getting a claw hammer placed between their ears =)nuff said...

Originally Posted by LJSMITH1

Why should any employer be beholden to a particular group to hire from? For example, if they hire non-union Americans, why should that be a problem, they are American citizens, right? Apparently, it is a BIG problem for some folks. I am not talking about illegals here. I am talking about equally-skilled folks that are willing to work for less than what others are willing to work for. If they are AMERICAN, why should it matter? If the employer is following all of the regulations and laws (that the Unions helped create), why shouldn't they be free to hire whomever they want? I don't understand...

Originally Posted by ARI001

I have no problem with organizing labor to ensure that employees are treated fairly and provided with safe working conditions. I also have no problem with employee representation ensuring businesses are following the laws set forth by the government to ensure fair and ethical treatment of employees.

Originally Posted by LJSMITH1

Just look at the idiots that were just nailed in NJ...

Originally Posted by Celtic

How many employees would really be "equally skilled" w/o some sort of formal apprenticeship/training program?

"Most" of the building trades workforce [by my own scientific calculations] have no little to no formal training of any sort.

The playing field is not level, and some will also be willing to do more for less....mostly due to ignorance, I suspect.

[Above in regards to building trades only]

Do you have a problem w/organized labor supplying businesses with a qualified work force?


Ninja strike...bet you didn't see that coming, did you?


HEY!!!!!
I know some of those guys

Originally Posted by LJSMITH1

Most of my comments were written in the vein of manufacturing and not building trades. Many companies have well established work training programs to teach anyone how to do a particular manufacturing job if they have the aptitude. If Unions were only in the building trade business (Electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc.) - AND everyone used union members....then I would not have as much of an issue because it should be a more level playing field. This type of work is not easily outsourced overseas.

In the matter of manufacturing jobs, people can do the work thousands of miles away, in a different culture, and with a different standard of living. Unions don't bring much to the employer's table in this current environment, mainly due to the intense global competition. Like I said before, all the employment and safety laws and regulations that Unions helped put in place - exist everywhere in the USA. So, if employers can also provide training as needed, what else is being offered? There shouldn't be only one game in town for a qualified manufacturing work force. Employers are perfectly adept in determining who is qualified and who isn't.

Originally Posted by LJSMITH1

Re: the NJ corruption fiasco...my condolences... Don't worry, I hope our Chris Dodd gets his walking papers too. CT has had quite a few mayors and governors nailed over the years...they are all idiots!

Originally Posted by bwalley

the least productive people I have ever worked with was the elevator guys, they were always threatening to pull off the job, complaining about their rights, etc.

Originally Posted by westernexplorer

You said Business has the right to set wages, your wrong. The market place sets wages. Labor is just like any other commodity, the greater the supply the lower the price.

This is why the Elite, Conservatives AND Liberal's want to welcome all the illegal's into the US and tell everyone "how much we need them to do all the jobs American's won't do". This is done to enrich the top 1% in this country.

Carpentry, roofing, carpet installing, painting, use to all be good jobs that paid a living wage and you could raise a family on those jobs. Now, almost without exception the only American's on residential jobs are the plumbers and electrician's, because the journeyman are required by State law to be licensed and the test is only given in English in my State.


There is a difference between making a decent profit and being down right greedy. We are all in business to make money. I don't operate a non-profit company. However, I can look my employee's in the eye and without question, they know they are being paid the highest wage and benefit package in the industry and they work hard for it.

Originally Posted by ARI001

You're right, I've never heard of double check Friday. When I was in the union no one got bonuses from the union. If you get bonuses that's great, more power to you!

Originally Posted by ARI001

Next time you're going to be in my area shoot me a PM. If you think your so bad I'm sure we can find a gym with a ring in it. I spend a lot of time hitting the weights just for guys like you that like to run off at the mouth. I won't be needing the claw hammer to defend myself, how about you?

If you don't want your grammar, spelling, and intellect picked on know what you are saying before you say it. I don't like to ignore lunatics cause if you turn your back to them next thing you know they are blowing up a building to make a point. You're comments seem to place you in that category. As far as the problem with the computer and paragraph formation I apologize for the statement if indeed the issue is with the computer.

Originally Posted by custrel

Dude, you realize he's KIDDING, right? "Double Check Friday" is when you get your butt laid off because you are too sick, lame, or lazy to keep your job. That or the boss just doesn't need you anymore b/c the job is over.

You and others seem to be under the misconception that trade unions have some sort of work protection or tenure like Teacher's Unions. We don't. People can and do get laid off at the drop of a hat.

Most of the bitter guys who quit the union are guys who can't keep a job in the union b/c they keep getting laid off.

The stereotype of the lazy, clock-milking union carpenter is about as accurate as the stereotype of the toothless, meth-fueled non-union carpenter - although I've met my share of those so...

Originally Posted by ARI001

Celtic,
The answer to your second question is yes I did, but I expected it from western not you.

Originally Posted by custrel

Dude, you realize he's KIDDING, right? "Double Check Friday" is when you get your butt laid off because you are too sick, lame, or lazy to keep your job. That or the boss just doesn't need you anymore b/c the job is over.

You and others seem to be under the misconception that trade unions have some sort of work protection or tenure like Teacher's Unions. We don't. People can and do get laid off at the drop of a hat.

Most of the bitter guys who quit the union are guys who can't keep a job in the union b/c they keep getting laid off.

The stereotype of the lazy, clock-milking union carpenter is about as accurate as the stereotype of the toothless, meth-fueled non-union carpenter - although I've met my share of those so...

Originally Posted by Kuba

You still live with mommy comments coming next?

maken me so hot with that internet flex. Who needs a gym are you a phat bastard? So, your telling me you talk to everyone this way outside of forums eh? Far as the claw hammer is concerned, its called a metaphor idiot. Sigh, of all the people ive every known to flap their gums couldnt beat their way out of a wet paper bag. Take your Phat or panzzy arse back to the gym and work on that complex man.. One of these days youll get rude with the wrong dude and you gona eat your fkn teeth kid.

Originally Posted by Kuba

I think its actually my wives laptop thats messed up, wow and Im using that right now...