Timesheets - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Mitch M · 11-25-2007, 09:27 PM

I have looked at and talked with the reps with the job clock system and we both have agreed that it will not work for me. I do too many little jobs that are scattered around.

I have my employees fill out their own timesheets but I am finding that they are padding their time or either they are putting their time in wrong. It is costing me a lot of money. And the Super has enough on his plate to try and fill it out as well.

I can't watch them all the time. Anybody got any ideas?

Chris Johnson · 11-25-2007, 09:43 PM

If your super is that busy with a whole bunch on his plate you should have crew chiefs for the individual crews. The crew chief should be responsible to properly and accurately fill out the time cards for his crew and have the super review and autograph them at the end of the day.

Mitch M · 11-25-2007, 09:48 PM

We used to do that at another company I worked with but I have 6 employees including the super. They all work on different jobs everyday sometimes by themselves.

I have instituted a new policy where they have to fill out timesheets daily and have them available at any time for review or they are fined. Some of them used to fill them out payday and then they were calling around to the other guys to see what they did.

orson · 11-25-2007, 10:11 PM

If your employees are padding time sheets then maybe u should consider giving them incentive for trimming their time. If u do man-hour estimates on jobs then what about offering a profit sharing incentive if employees come in under the projected man hours.

Chris Johnson · 11-25-2007, 11:16 PM

I hate to say it, but if you have 6 guys and they are taking advantage of you on timesheets, what else are they screwing you out of? Long Lunches, Extended Breaks, Materials, Tools???

Watch the FINES, I don't know where you are, but I know it is illegal to fine an employee in CA.

Mitch M · 11-25-2007, 11:52 PM

The majority of my work is T & M so it is hard to offer incentives. I have had a few tools missing but it is hard to pinpoint who and where. I do have one employee that I found out that does not have a valid drivers license as required by company policy (and he is not a laborer either), I am planning on getting rid of him very shortly.

I am in NC. I guess the threat is there more than anything as far as fines. I developed an employee handbook over the last few months and had it reviewed by my attorney with minor changes. This is was given out a few weeks ago but some of the items are not getting into their head.

Sometimes I am at the point of just getting rid of all of them but a couple and sub out everything but even then because of my T & M work it is still babysitting. And when I say T & M it is because the work I do is primarily unseen and unknown damaged wood and my clients and I have a understanding of how everything will be billed.

Chris Johnson · 11-26-2007, 02:39 AM

Well, by what you are writing I see no alternative for you other than constant babysitting.

Fortunate for you, but unfortunate for your clients is you bill T&M, your clients are the ones who are paying your guys whether they are performing work or not if they are padding their timecards and you are also making a percentage off that, along with the IRS and the insurance company.

The best ways to check the honesty of your employees is not to tell them your schedule, do surprise site visits, check up on them. I promise you will let some go and see a few straighten up real quick if you keep up with them.

d-rez · 11-26-2007, 09:11 AM

Mitch-
I'm with ya, buddy! I go through the same thing too. Over the past 6-10 weeks I ended up firing all my guys. Some were fired on the recomendation of my super. He was having me fire them, then would hire them to work side jobs for him! It's a cut-throat world. You CANNOT have someone in your company who is cheating you! Positively prove they are padding their time and ax them. This is a form of theft. God, this pisses me off just hearing about this kind of stuff.....

Mitch M · 11-26-2007, 06:22 PM

Got a call late this afternoon from one of my guys. The two that were working with him today replacing some siding took off when 5PM came around. He was pissed. The thing is that one is his brother and one is nephew. I am going to talk with super and others Tuesday to get facts and then I may cut two of them loose.

I have a non compete agreement with all of my guys but that is not the problem, it is 5PM and blinders. That is all they can think about. Ohh..... and also payday.

Chris Johnson · 11-26-2007, 06:59 PM

The joy of employees, 5pm and PayDay. I have a running thing going with my guys, I p/u the tab for pizza once a month, sometimes twice. If we have to work past 8 hours for the day I make it up in paid time off when we can afford the time off. I try to make the job fun for all, mind you the hardest thing we do is lift 8lbs of styrofoam and stack em like Lego, so it is a fun job.

If an employee refuses to work the hours needed to complete the job (which sometimes exceed 8 for the day) and others are more than willing to keep working to get the job done than you get to see first hand who the team players are and who is just putting in time getting a paycheck. These are the first guys to stab you in the back, cut em loose.

How's the law with that non-compete agreement? I've never used one, but I have heard stories of employers suing former employees for breaking them and than losing in court, judge says if it's all the guy knows how to do you can't stop him from surviving. I am sure there is more to the story than that. But these losers aren't going to be a problem competing against you by the sounds of it, hell 5:00pm and their out of here.

Mitch M · 11-27-2007, 10:21 PM

5PM today and two of them were out of here!! Permanently!!! I told them that I had enough. One of them had a suspended drivers license and I told the other that he needed to grow up! They did not say anything. They also did not say anything when I brought up they left yesterday without securing the houses that we were working on. We have a real problem with homeless in this area. We moved the houses from a few blocks away and while they were up someone broke in one of them and started stripping wire. They were under the rest of them while they were on the dollies and stripped every wire they could find.

I also put the other one on notice. My other three guys have been with me 4, 2.5, and 2 years. One of them is my right hand man. So I think I am where I need to be at least for a while.

Hamburgjl · 11-29-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch M

The majority of my work is T & M so it is hard to offer incentives. I have had a few tools missing but it is hard to pinpoint who and where. I do have one employee that I found out that does not have a valid drivers license as required by company policy (and he is not a laborer either), I am planning on getting rid of him very shortly.

.

You can bonus them on billed hours vs timesheet hours for each job. I would bet if you anayzed your timesheets vs. what was billed to your customers, there would be a surprising gap between them, which you are paying for out of your gross profit. Such as 4 hours on the timesheet and 3 hours on the job invoice. (" I felt bad billing him for...." you pick the excuse. )

Add a column to your timesheet with "billed hours" and require your men to post the invoiced time on the timesheet, along with hours they worked. Figure out some statistic you can reward them for such as % of time worked vs time billed. Track the company total each week, this will make you a ton of money. Audit their math a lot in the beginning and periodically after that. Make the bonus system "subject to change without notice" and let them know has to be a win-win situation.

Regarding getting rid of the guy without the valid license, why are you waiting?

We have also had a hard time with tools, there is really only one answer, let everyone know that tool charges without prior permission WILL result in immediate termination, type it up get everyone to sign it and put it in a policy book.

daArch · 11-29-2007, 07:20 PM

God I hate to go here, and please take it from a professional point of view, not a personal one.

Managing a work force is real tough. You don't want to be good buddies with your crew because then they will walk all over you, yet you do not want to be a nazi (can I say nazi without invoking Godwins Law ?) because then they will screw you just for the sake of screwing you.

There is some zone in between where they RESPECT you and the comapny and THEMSELVES. They actually enjoy doing good work for a fair wage and have PRIDE.

Don't ask me how this is done, I work by myself ...... and for good reason. I was incorporated once with a crew of five. I wasn't for me.

Running a business is TOUGH (no S*HIT, Arch !). We have to be EVERYTHING.

Again, I work by myself - for good reason.

Good luck finding the right mix.

**Ed the Roofer** · 11-29-2007, 07:57 PM

I looked up some devices because of some spam e-mail I got. I did not click the spams link, but googled the terms and foud this interesting for this kind of dilemma.

This would give you all of their GPS locations and times at the spots. Costly, but if it saves on actual hours, maybe it is not.

Ed

Tracking Key
[Tracking Key]$299.00 $229.00

Click to enlarge

LandAirSea Tracking Key -

Here are some of the power Features:

Logs data, including speed, every second
Very affordable and NO ONGOING MONTHLY FEES!!!!
Runs on just 2 AAA batteries
16 channel GPS Receiver
Accuracy of 2.5 meters
Can be placed in, on, or under the vehicle in seconds.
Create an easy to read text report
Average battery life of 2 weeks with standard Alkaline batteries, 2.5 weeks with Lithium batteries. Battery life depends on hours driven per day. Above calculations are determined with 2 hours of driving per day.
Fast USB download. The tracking key plugs right into your computer.
Low battery indicator lets you know if you need new batteries.
Data is compatible with the popular Google Earth.
Shows every stop the driver makes.
Records the driving speed, every second. Shows you the maximum speed driven for the day.
Displays location, date, and time of every stop.
Software animates the car driving over a digital street map.

woodmagman · 11-29-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch M

I have looked at and talked with the reps with the job clock system and we both have agreed that it will not work for me. I do too many little jobs that are scattered around.

I have my employees fill out their own timesheets but I am finding that they are padding their time or either they are putting their time in wrong. It is costing me a lot of money. And the Super has enough on his plate to try and fill it out as well.

I can't watch them all the time. Anybody got any ideas?

What ever happened to my word is my bond and honesty is the best policy...? There is no way other then pay it out and check on it as best you can. Any and all solutions cost money that are rejected by the workforce or a way to cheat them is not far from being found. Either way the cost is passed onto the customer. Figure for the extra costs as a mini mart caluculates shortages ( a polite way of saying those little (four letter word) that stole my profits. Pass the cost onto the customer and communicate your concerns with the staff. Profit sharing with thieves does not make a lot of sences to me...

Pearce Services · 11-30-2007, 04:57 AM

We require our guys to call us from the jobsite as they are leaving to give us an update, status of work, materials needed, Etc. This is to keep good communication open, but it serves to keep the guys somewhat honest.

I started doing this one day as I was sitting at a job site talking to my lead on the cell phone, who proceeded to tell me they will be leaving in 45 minutes, when there had been no sign of him for at least one hour.

We may ask a question periodically to make sure they are really still there.

If they work on multiple jobs they need to check in as they leave each job.

The guy that does my oil burner service does the same thing with nextel. The tech always calls in as he is getting my signature, stating the status, and what he is to do next.

If they do not call in regularly, only pay them for 40 hours one week, when they come in to complain, explain to them why.......then add the missing hours to their next check, That will set them straight