Staying Alive In A Tough Economy?

jaros bros.

So I made the move from northern Vermont to north of Houston this last fall. I have picked up a few jobs and things aren't looking too bad. I learned one thing pretty quickly...stay away from Houston. There are so many illegals working in the new construction down there it is amazing.
I got some sub work from a place and I was told that I should hire one or two or maybe a whole crew. Word has it that you drive to a certain location and pick out of the line. I was told that I might go through 3 or 4 before I got a good one, but if I upped the pay to say $13 or $14 an hour, I could get a decent one. I have seen the work firsthand that these type of crews do, and I have to tell you it would never pass inspection and lacks any craftsmanship for the most part. But people don't seem to care and they can get a monstrous house for around $200k.
For me, well, I'll never hire one. I'm not in the field. I do quality work that requires a great deal of craftsmanship for folks that don't want to cut corners.
It sure is surprising though how the trades have been polluted by cheap labor from Mexico. And for that matter, there's a lot of people who would work for $13 or $14 an hour. I knew guys working in Vermont for less than that.
Yes, I'm told that they work hard...but Americans work hard too. And when the supervisor left the site, they all started screwing around and taking their sweet time. Do I think I'm any better than a Mexican...not for one second...but the law is the law and I don't support anarchy.

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Darren@Partners

We've all got tales of woe these days. Yeh, I saved my $, but not enough evidently. I cut all the hourly guys(even my own brother, been with us 10 years) in April 2007. Ran out of backlog August 2006. And the cut-throat BS that goes on makes it next to impossible to stay in the black. But the phone is starting to ring, just hope it isn't just a tax refund rush that peters out. Outlook here pretty grim as well but at least some activity of late. Can't be dwelling on the "glory days", got to hustle harder.

THINKPAINTING

My cousin is picking and sorting oranges in Fl 70 hrs a week, so he will not lose his house. He had to beg for the job, the owner only wanted ilegals. You are so wrong its not even funny.

My son wanted a job at Micky D's to pay insurance for his car, guess what all illegals working there...................I personally know of Vets combat vets who will pick fruit............................Jerk

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CNC

the owner only wanted illegals for what reason?

The people who are employing "illegals" are the crooks. This illegal term is borderline racist, only because it sounds like your assuming anyone mexican or hispanic on a job site is "illegal". Im just another white boy, but personally know plenty of hard working "trying to be legal" mexicans, working hard in USA, because that it was america is. Its not easy to become a "legal" and thats part of our problem in the US.

There are so many of US that look at a mexican, and think he is illegal, just because he or she doesnt speak fluent english yet, or looks just like the next disprespectful illegal just taking our money and running back to their country.

There was a time when the irish or italians, and many other european IMMIGRANTS were look at the same way, many of your parent, or grandparents, or great grandparents, but this is how america was formed!

why does everyone have to be so white and black? Its like you support them being illegal (which i dont) or hate them, and think we should build a big wall to keep them out?

There are definatly better ways of handling this, and do agree, that contractors should be fined BIG TIME , for using illegal help, if they dont have a visa, or proof of citizenship. It needs to be handled in a better way

TaitINC

This is something I found on another forum and thought it would fit right in here.

Any thoughts on this?


WHY ARE WE BANKRUPT?


Informative, and mind boggling!



You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

Boy, was I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I also have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC RI PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.o...eportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.

Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm>

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'

Verify at: http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOU LD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.


Are we THAT stupid? YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!

Aiken Colon

We are getting between 15-20 calls a day for guys wanting to become energy auditors. GC's stand to benefit a lot by becomming one. They not only get the audit they can also sub out the improvements (or do them), that are currently huge tax incentives to home owners. It is not difficult to calculate the energy efficiency on certain upgrades with proper training, software and equipment.

It is the ground floor in this industry right now and with the new stimulus bill, local and state incentives as well as power company incentives there is a lot more money out there than you guys might know. Not to mention it is "green" building practices, which is a big buzz word(s) these days.

We had one guy get the complete power grid of a power company in PA for all their audits. He went from a single blower door and infrared camera purchase with training on both, to 8 blower doors, 8 duct blasters and 8 infrared cameras.

So for you guys that hold a GC license, it might be an avenue to pursue while things are slow in your primary business.

JJ

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pcplumber

if you want to stay friends don't talk about politics and religion.......and the illegals.

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pcplumber

"Hey Bob, what is your brother doing."

"Which brother?"

"The one that was looking for that $100,000 government job."

"He ain't doing nothing. He got the job."

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pcplumber

Sorry, but I don't get your point. First, you complain that your cousin took a menial job of picking fruit for 70 hours per week. Then, you complain that your son wants a menial job at MC Donalds. I'll bet you weren't complaining about the Hispanics picking your fruit and getting your burgers when the economy was better. I'll bet you would not complain about the illegals, tomorrow, if your cousin lands a fat butt government job doing nothing but getting fatter, earning $100,000 per year, and getting 60 days a year off for vacation trips while driving his motor home and jet skis past the Hispanice picking fruit in the blazing heat and humidity, as they take his old job working 70 hours per week, for $5 per hour, with no medical, no rights, and no respect.

You are only complaining because the economy is bad. When things get better, we'll forget about blaming the Hispanics.

And don't forget that many of the Hispanics slaving in the hot son for $5 per hour, or less, are legal. Nobody wants the illegals here. We only want to reap the benefit of having them here when it is convenient and to get the services they provide because we don't want to pay $20 per pound for oranges.

If you are truly against the Hispanics, don't patronize any business that has anything to do with their services and that will be impossible, with or without them, because you cannot get an American to do the jobs they take. We Americans are taught that we must be thinkers and not workers from the day we are born. We are taught that the only thing we get from hard work is a broken back.

I'm willing to bet that General Motors does not hire illegals and look what the Americans did to General Motors as they fly their fat butts around in $100 million private jets. Maybe! Just Maybe, the Americans are over-paid for what they produce and that is the reason General Motors lost $19 billion during the same time period Honda earned a profit of $19 billion. The most dreadful thing is General Motors and Nissan manufactured and sold almost the exact same number of vehicles. How do you blame the Hispanics for the loss and the profit at the same time? Today, I read General Motors is something like $39 billion in debt. Blame it on the Mexicans!

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StoneRenew

I'm tired of all you guys out there who have worked with a couple Mexican'ts, had a decent conversation with them, and now all the sudden your running around calling everyone Racist who doesnt like that fact that they are ILLEGAL! I dont give a **** if your a white guy from Canada! If you come here then you better bring your papers that says American Citizen! My Step mom is from Panama. She did it in a few months. Are we to believe that all of these other imigrants are somehow under different "special" circumstances that they can't do the same?
Unfortunetly before I got into stone work I was a Brick mason, and my cheap ass boss hired about 30 illegal Mexican'ts. They all had 3 or 4 different names and ID's. They all openly admitted that they came here to work for a few years to send money back to there family's in Mexico, so they could save up enough to build a house and then eventually move back there. Now someone explain to me how this is beneficial for this country? They take jobs from people who were BORN HERE! Then they dont even have the decent commencey to spend the money they STOLE in our country thus helping the economy. I dont want to hear anymore BS about racism or how good of workers they are. I saw and wittnessed it first hand for 4 years.

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pcplumber

The only difference I see regarding the illegals is they don't have papers and they don't pay federal, or state taxes. As stated in a recent post, the illegals do contribute to the tax system in many other ways as they buy gasoline, utilities, commodities, vehicles, and even homes.

If you are worried about the illegals not paying taxes, you should read the book Freakonomics and see how many Americans don't pay any taxes, or how many cheat on their taxes. This does not justify illegals being here, but it does not justify your complaining about 'only' the illegals not paying taxes. How many American people have babies, never paid a penny into the system, and suck from the system for the rest of their lives, and continue to suck from the system for many generations, afterward, as their children have babies and suck from the system.

I am not an expert on the number of Hispanics sucking from the system, but from those I personally know, I don't know of one. Most Hispanics are very hard workers and do not suck from our system. I did work in Lancaster California for one year and there were about 200 mail boxes across the street from where I was working. Twice a week about 200 people stood in line for hours waiting for their welfare checks and every single person was white. Not one black, not one Asian, and not one Hispanic. I know this for a fact because we used to scan the lines to see if one person was not white. We Americans tend to blow everyhing out of proportion when a Hispanic person kills someone, or does something wrong that hits the news.

THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM IS RACIST AND UNFAIR because many other races get visas, green cards, and citizenship absolutely for free within months while Hispanics are turned away and never get a free ride with the Lotto Green Card. Perhaps, many people have not heard of the LOTTO SYSTEM where a Japanese (especially) and other races get green cards within weeks and they don't have to pay tens of thousands of dollars. All they have to do is apply and they get a Free Lotto Green Card. Very unfair!

Every race sends money to their homeland. My wife is Filipina and she sends tens of thousands of dollars to her relatives in the Philippines. We send trillions of dollars to countries for their cars and other products, anyway. It is okay for the white man to send money to another country, buy everyone blows it out of proportion when it is a Hispanic.

I am an American of Italian descent, so I don't have a grudge about anyone who complains about illegals, but I literally know thousands of illegal Chinese who work in sweat shops making clothing in Monterey Park California and they earn less than $2.50 per hour. You would be amazed to see how how these people work making an entire suit dress that sells at Nordstroms for up to $700 and the entire amount they get paid for sewing the entire dress, cleaning it, pressing it, bagging it, and delivering it to the company that cuts the cloth is only $1.60 to $2.25. I know this, for a fact, because I dated the Chinese owner of a sweat shop for a few months.

I don't hear anyone complaining about the Chinese taking their jobs and there has to be well over 250,000 illegal Chinese in the Los Angeles area. They come here in 40 foot containers, probably every day.

I say we should legalize everybody, make everyone pay their taxes, and the economy will improve much faster. The number one thing that creates a healthy economy is growth of the population. With growth we need more homes, more labor to build the homes, more stoves, refrigerators, cars, police, roads, schools, parks, hospitals, doctors, and on and on. Send the Mexicans home and we are going to have many vacant stores, gas stations, businesses that support Mexicans, and homes. It is your call? Besides, Hispanics are great for growing the population. Lets just give them a Free Lotto Green Card.

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mahlere

California is about to implode due in large part to the debt created from paying for schooling and medical for all the illegals in the state...

orson

The problem isn't that nobody wants the jobs, the problem is that the employers refuse to pay. We're not talking about grapes here, we're talking about construction trades.

And the money is there to pay the wages, it just wouldn't go in the pockets of the GCs and the white guys getting the sub contracts and bringing in the illegals.

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jaros bros.

I think a lot of people would do work for $10-$14 an hour cash. That's what some of the skilled ones in Houston get. That's more than a lot of people make.

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VitoFromNJ

pc, your peeps came here and wanted a new start for themselves and their children and grand-children. The few items that they had were packed in a trunk. They hugged, cried, laughed, and said good-bye.

They made this country what it is. The impoverished European immigrant built this country, and then their sons defended freedom and democracy.

These border jumpers couldnt compare

SelfContract

Originally Posted by pcplumber
.... Twice a week about 200 people stood in line for hours waiting for their welfare checks and every single person was white. Not one black, not one Asian, and not one Hispanic. I know this for a fact because we used to scan the lines to see if one person was not white. We Americans tend to blow everyhing out of proportion when a Hispanic person kills someone, or does something wrong that hits the news.

Because getting in line requires a SSN#, but most Hispanics either have to buy faked one, or can't afford it to fake the welfare application. Otherwise, they will line up if NO SSN# or NO application for foodstamps & medicaid required.

StoneRenew

Self contract =

PC Turd chaser, You are ignorant and full of what you chase around all day. If you recall I SAID I DONT CARE WHAT COLOR OR NATIONALITY YOU ARE if you come here then you better have papers and quit stealing jobs and sending money out of this country. I dont care what your wife is. Why dont you look at some of the state laws before you run your trap. Tell your wife to start spending that money here in the states not her family accross the nation. If they want money then tell them to get off their ass's and do something about it. Thats the problem with people like you. Your concerned about countries and people who don't do anything for me, or you. Your a socialist. You are a cancer to this country. Love it or leave it. Go live in the philipines for all I care.

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pcplumber

it just doesn't make sense to worry about how the money is leaving this country. I did not hear you mention that Americans should not go on vacations to other countries and bring their money there. There must be a trillion dollars leaving this country every year for vacations. Brad Pitt just bought a $70 million home in France and I'll bet it was with American money. I don't know how many trillions of dollars we spend for foreign products. If we do what you want we will build the China wall in the U.S. and stop doing business with every country for a hundred years. That means no resources in and no resources out. Then we would have zero manufacturing and zero trade with other countries. Or, maybe an ideal world would be we could only sell products to other countries and we never purchase anything from another country. We deserve it! How many trillions of dollars are we sending to the Middle East for their oil?

I really believe the last jerk Bush was working to get a One World Order (or whatever you call it). Bush, in my opinion, was working toward having a One World Currency like the Euro Dollar. I do believe we are going to have a One World Economy. In the very near future a can of beans is going to cost the exact same price in every country in the world and there is nothing you and I can do because it is inevitable. If you are throwing furniture now, what is going to happen when the Chinese stop manufacturing everything for 10% of the price in this country and we are forced to pay full U.S. price to the Chinese because we don't have any manufacturing plants. In the past year the price for almost every Chinese product increased by 10% to 20%. So, now we lost our fat American jobs and we are paying full price to the Chinese.

This is how the U.S. government attributes to the vicious cycle. The U.S. does not want companies to buy pencils from China because the 'claim' they want the U.S. manufacturers to make the pencils, so last year the U.S. imposed what the Chinese call a Dump Tax on the import of pencils. The import tax is 130%, so a pencil that costs 2 cents in China last year now costs 4.6 cents, plus shipping, but the pencils still cost about 3 cents less than pencils made in the U.S., so the only thing that the tax did is make Americans pay more for pencils and the only entity that benefits is the U.S. government as the rake in the 130% tax.

I'm assuming you install marble. What would you do today if you could get the marble you sell for 10% of what you have to pay in the U.S.. Instead of one truck load of marble you could get 10 truckloads to pull up to your business for exactly the same price. Then, you could undercut every marble man in the U.S. and you would be a billionaire, but you are not currently looking at the opportunity of doing business with the Chinese. If you were making $millions, you would not be sour and would have a different point of view. Do you know who the richest person in the world is. I'm not positive but I think it is a Mexican who own the television stations Telemundo. His stations run in the U.S. and I think he makes more money than the richest Arabs. How much of his money is coming from the U.S. and would you like to be his 50/50 partner? I just have a different point of view.

I'm not trying to get you upset. I just think you need to be realistic. Don't get mad, but I buy two forty foot containers of advertising material from China every year. I actually posted a copy of the invoices and shipping documents a few months ago, but before you get angry, I was purchasing the same identical items and paying U.S. prices a few years ago. Either way the materials were coming from China. By going direct, I pay 8 cents for a 5 x 7 magnetic calendar and in the U.S. I was paying 75 cents for the same calendar made by the same manufacturer. I buy 300,000 ink pens directly from China every year and I pay 6 cents for each pen, or 35 cents in the U.S.

I spent a year in Korea in 1970, 4 months in Japan, and have been to the Philippines several times and visited Mexico a few times. Perhaps, I suck in a little different point of view regarding how I feel about people in foreign countries because I have compassion for all people. People in foreign countries have the same industrial rights as people in the U.S. and we are getting upset because we are blowing it.

I think the 'problem' with the U.S. and the 'answer' is education. A very high percent of Americans don't have the equivalence of a 5th grade education even if they went to four years of college. A very high percent of Americans can't tell you how many ounces are in a pound. Only 2% of the Americans have enough education to do the thinking for the other 98%, and even many of the top 2% can't or won't, for honesty and other reasons, make an intelligent decision. We have too many cultures diluting every value. The average American has very few values and if you don't believe it just leave your cell phone lying around a public place a few times because 90% of the time the first person who sees your cell phone will steal it. Drop a $20 bill on the floor a few times and see how many people will give it back even when they know you dropped it. Leave your credit card on the counter at a Target after you sign the receipt and watch the person behind you pick it up and keep it. In the past two years, the cashier at Target took my credit card and placed three charges on it within 5 minutes of my leaving, and I had customers behind me steal bash the cashier forgot to give me on two separate occasions. How many major trials were there where the juries set the defendants free and actually admitted they knew the defendants were guilty? How many CEO's and stock brokers burned people for billions and never went to jail? How many politicians are honest? How many police and priests are molesting minors?

I'm sure you will mention the corruption and ignorance in other countries, but this comparison does not solve our laziness, corruption, and ignorance problems in this country. I am not upset with you nor anybody. I am not un-American. I blame the problem on too many cultures and ignorance. We can correct our problems by educating our children and being better parents. Then in 20 years, we will have educated people running this country.

Did you every study how the average American educates and teaches their children values. Look at what happens in riots. Parents loot stores with their children. The other parents who you think are more high-class and educated are stealing your cell phone and money from your IRA, cheating on their taxes, or they are selling you services you don't need. Did you know in Japan people don't ask a mechanic how much it will cost to repair a car because the mechanics are very honest? I'm sure there is corruption in Japan, also, but overall service people are trusted and not as unscrupulous as Americans, or at least this is what I have been told several times, since I have lived in a Japanese community for the past 36 years.`

I am not upset and hope this post is not interpreted as a fire, flame, or whatever you call it. I have my own theory and philosophies about business and I think I am fairly successful. By purchasing my items from China I am currently keeping 42 employees working 6 to 7 days a week and they work right through the holidays. I am turning over some very large amounts of cash that are contributing to the cash flow in the economy. I have one employee who purchased a house three months ago, is currently looking for a 2nd house, and I have two more employees looking and ready to buy a house. We can either think like you and go on the welfare while we're waiting for the world to heal (maybe 10 to 20 years), or we can take advantage of the changes in the world and provide a good lifestyle for our families. When the automobile became popular in the early 1900's, I'm sure a lot of carriage builders and buggy whip manufacturers tried to hold onto the businesses they took a lifetime to build. It is sad, but sometimes we have to pull up our tent stakes and move on to greener pastures, or everybody will be walking along railroad tracks with that polkadot bag on the end of a stick.

Don't get mad. Just my point of view. And don't expect the economy to improve for no less than 10 to 20 years. I'm not holding my breath. Get your gears turning and try to come up with some new business ideas. My facts, tax percent, cost for pencils, etc. are not exact, and I may be wrong.

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StoneRenew

The only thing the Chinese are good at is making CHEAP quick and easy products. By the way I just thought you should know, 90% of the wealthy Chinese buy AMERICAN FURNITURE. Ethan Allen. Why? I just watched a documentary the other day and the Chinese said "we like American products, they are always good quality". They also had ALL American appliances in their homes. Need I say more? Oh I'm sorry they make pencils cheaper. When you buy direct you are supporting communism. I have no problem buying products that are imported because you pay a mark up, which builds this economy. When cheap skates like you buy direct, you are supporting the sweat shops in china, and communism.

Well its no big surprise that you "assume" no I dont Install marble. I restore it. But i'm glad you mentioned this topic. The chinese have recently been importing tons of FAKE marbles and granites. They still sell for close to the same prices as the quality stuff. Funny thing is...it can't be restored or refinished like the quality real stuff can. Thanks but no thanks.

You act like this country is the only place that has theives or lying politicians. You arent being honest with yourself. By the way I went to the cleveland car show a couple days ago. Over 8,000 people were there. I lost my cell phone. Guess what? An American found it, went through the trouble to look through my contacts, call my mother and told her about it, she called my wife and I got my phone back. You talking out of your ass. You are a biased, ignorant fool. Another thing...Who the FU** are you talking about when you mentioned 5th grade education "even college graduates"? I swear you make this crap up. American's are among the highest educated in the world. Along with the Japanese. Why do you think this country has flourished in the last 200 years? Because they can't read or write or do basic math?


You can think like me and go on welfare?? WTF are you talking about? You are a pencil salesman. I own my own home! I own my own business! I own three vehicles and a motorcycle! I also have employee's. Just shut your mouth turd chaser. You make no sense. Go live in mexico or the philipines. We dont need your kind around here. Oh by the way you moron the richest man is not some Mexican't who own's a small TV station. Sounds like your the one with the 5th grade education. [/quote]

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pcplumber

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...p_billionaires

Warren Buffet is the richest billionaire at $62 billion and the Mexican is # 2 at $60 billion. I am fairly positive the Mexican was #1 for a period within the past two years.

The point of my post was not to bag on Americans. It was to talk about values, education, and express my opinion that Americans are not the only race that have the right to fair competition. Maybe I come on a little strong, but there are many people who need a wake-up call and be better start thinking hard rather than looking for someone to blame.

Sure, I'll leave the country, we can kick out the illegal Hispanics, Chinese, Koreans, illegals from every other country and the real estate and economy will drop another 20% or more.

Lets start talking about answers rather than beating each other up. A good economy is dependent on babies being born and immigration. More babies means more construction, schools, roads, police, manufacturing, refrigerators, cars. etc. The only problem I see with every illegal race is they don't pay taxes because if they paid taxes they would be getting paid more and you would not be complaining that they are stealing your jobs because they work cheap. So, we have a choice. We build the China Wall across the borders, or we capitalize on their being here. I don't see where the China Wall is going to work. If we kick them out we reduce the size of our population and worsen our economy.

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