Starting Pay For Employee

ultimatetouch

How do you guys work it out with your employees as far as pay gos. I mean a guy says he could do this and that and you havent seen him actually do it. I started a guy off at 20 an hr who claims to be a skilled carpenter, hes a young guy with good intentions. His skill level isnt what I thought it should be for what he said. First day framed a deck..looked good...the second day put down the decking...third day installed a stair like a jack a**. I think hes worth more like a $16. I am just going to have to tell him. I dont want to fire him..I just want to lower his pay.

__________________
Ultimatetouch
Illinois Remodeling Company, Kitchen Remodeling Chicago, Room Additions Illinois

Chris Johnson

you got the right idea, we pay between 16 and 29 per hour, most guys start at 20 and I let them know come Friday 1 of 4 things will happen, same wage, lower wage, higher wage, walking papers

__________________
Chris

ultimatetouch

I would pay the labor 10-11. if they know basics 15-16. If they are a skilled carpenter (depending on effiency and consistency) 20-25.

__________________
Ultimatetouch
Illinois Remodeling Company, Kitchen Remodeling Chicago, Room Additions Illinois

Geminijoe

First off,
do you have a employee handbook, outlining your probation period and managments right to change rates of pay. if yes you will have no problem (he will, but you wont). if not, Dept of labor can be funny, (depending on your state) they may require for you to write him up first, outlining his inabilities then wait and reavaluate ETC... they have weird rules.

there are other ways but if he is like most of the employees that have come and GONE in my business, he will do one of two things
1. Take the cut, become disgruntal and start looking for another job.
2. Or he will just say see ya!

Joe

realpurty2

No one likes having their pay taken away. It works better to hire them in at a lower conditional payrate for a specified period of time. Detail what you expect of them in the job description and if at the end of the probationary period, they have met your expectations, raise them to their standard payrate.

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

Geminijoe

the way I hire is as followes.

I have them fill out a form in it it asks for the rate requested.
I kind of feal them out and if I like them I Hire them for a little less then what the are looking for with the understanding that he will be reavaluated in a week or two (depending on the jobs I have him on).

Dont forget you are taking their word for what the can do. I explain this to them and tell them to prove thier worth more and they will get it.

as realpurty2 said its easier to go up then down!

Joe

john elliott

Just as no employee likes to take a pay cut, no employer likes to pay more for what they were getting for less.

I believe it is up to the employer to assess the employee's skill level before he takes him on, and to pay a suitable wage right from the start. If the employee is unable to meet the employer's requirements in the long run, then he should be terminated.

John

__________________
Ed the Roofer said "John too, in his crass and blunt demeanor.............."

mahlere

John, how many employees do you have? how many have you hired? I agree with you in a perfect world, but I've never been able to accurately assess anyone's skills until I have a chance to actually see them work.

Mike Finley

Ditto to Joe, Purty and Mahlere. Let me sum them up for you

You can only get a feel for a potential hire. The more testing you do the better the feel for his skill levels. If you're smart enough you should be able to come up with a way to test them and get a really good idea on what they can do.

HOWEVER, what they can do and how they do it are still most likely going to be two different things. Even if a guy has all the ability, it doesn't mean he is organized in his methods or efficient and that won't be revealed until you see a days work out of them.

Regardless, the bottom line is you won't know what he is really worth to you until he is working on the job and you can evaluate him over time.

As the employer it's up to you to set the standards and one of those standards is the pay scale. You set up the standards the scales and the employees fit within your system, not the other way around.

Chances are you probably won't be able to retain this person at a lower wage. You're going to have to be a really good manager and convey to this person how you made a mistake, how you are new at this, and how it wouldn't be fair to them or you to keep them at this pay scale because you won't be happy with them and it will show, how you'd rather fix what was your mistake and if they can understand it, you would do your best to work with them and help them build the skills to bring them up to the current level over time.

If you really want to get into this I will give you 3 questions to ask your employee after their trial period that will be invaluable.

Geminijoe

I agree how can you know upfront what they are capable of?
You are kind of taking their word for it. even calling the referances, idont know how it is in other states but in NY you can not ask past employers certain questions (well you can ask its againt the Labor Law for them to respond). they can only tell you how their attendance was and if they would hire them back.

I Have 30 employees and as you all know in this industry (revolving door) I have to interview, hire, fire and evaluate a lot.

another tip I have learned is to only offer evaluations once a year company wide (pick a date) forget the anniversary date review its too time consuming and easy to forget/miss.

Joe

realpurty2

You don't really realize the TRUE cost of labor until your doing the audits. An employee cost alot more than just their hourly rate but few realize this at first. You've got to figure in the taxes, WComp, added tools, losses due to mistakes, slower production than what you can do yourself etc.
Until any employee is trained and working in a way that produces income for the company, they are a burden not an asset. So when you start someone out at a top payrate right out of the starting gate, your throwing money away until the day you can put him on a jobsite and he will do the work as fast and as well as you would have.

Most will do or say whatever they have to in order to land the job. (Be honest, we've all done it ourselves at one time or another ) If they are seriously interested in working for your company, they will be very understanding and receptive about starting at a pre-set rate knowing if they back up all they promised on the application, it will raise quickly to a fair wage. I tell new hires that how quickly they advance is completely up to them as an incentive to come out of the gate strong. It works. The ones who are worth keeping have delivered all they promised and are now making top pay for the area. Those who couldn't/didn't/weren't willing or able are now gone and we are glad of it. The cream will always rise to the top in the long run and they are the only ones who are worth keeping to begin with.

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

ultimatetouch

I honestly dont know what I should pay a guy and what is fair..lets face it a lot of us want as good a deal as you could get..that being said its easy to pay somone less then they are worth. I want to be fair..I have decided to work with him and bring him up to par and show him how I work(set the standards). I worked with them until 2pm today and left the rest for my two guys to finish.

__________________
Ultimatetouch
Illinois Remodeling Company, Kitchen Remodeling Chicago, Room Additions Illinois

Mike Finley

That's a good point, it is tough to figure out the market in the beginning. You made me have to think about how I figured it out.

I guess it was a combination of asking on our questionaire the salary they were looking for. Over time seeing 100-200 of them you got a better idea of some from that. Also on the questionaire I had them list past empoyement and salary, that was an even better one, because it showed what they actually were making, some listed starting and ending.

I guess it will come to over time, you'll get a feel for about what is right.

Pearce Services

After 3 days you will also have a good feel for ethics, motivation, willingness to learn, able to follow directions, potential to be left unattended, and maybe even get a feel for his ability to run a project.

Have you asked him what his strengths are? you may have asked him to do something that he has never have done before. If he's relatively new to this trade, the guy he worked for previously might not have given him opportunities to do certain things.

I would ask him what type of tasks he feel confident in, which ones he can do, but would like to learn more about, and which ones he has never had a chance to do. His answers will give you a chance to see what kind of person you are dealing with, help you to use him in the right situation, and also assist you in creating a training philosophy for him.

If he's a fast learner, uses good safety practices, and appears to be ethical aand presentable, I would not cut his pay, but would explain that your expectations are a little higher for a $20/hr employee, that you are confident that he will be worth the money in short order, and that it is up to him to get there. Also let him know that he is on a pay scale that he will need to get used to, that it will not be going up for a while.

ultimatetouch

Excellent advice and info...I dont mind paying a little more for a good attitude and someone who is motivated to learn more. A good attitude is what I am looking for.

__________________
Ultimatetouch
Illinois Remodeling Company, Kitchen Remodeling Chicago, Room Additions Illinois