Small Jobs

linkster01

Hey guys, my drywall business is pretty new, so when I get a call for work I pretty much take everything. Here is the dilema, some jobs are very small: Bathrooms,living rooms,small basements. Even when we are hired to hang,tape and texture these jobs in the end just dont seem to payoff. I know my labor rates are competetive and naturaly when we do get bigger jobs everything seems to work just fine. So do I need to start charging alot different for these jobs or is this just a part of being "the new drywall kid on the block"?
Ps-I have been estimating by sqft wall space on everything, should these smaller jobs be T&M?

Teetorbilt

I charge more for 'small jobs' and make good money doing it. Baths and kitchens are the worst. Most contractors don't want to deal with it. Niche market.

Many times the HO will dig around for a few weeks until they realise that their options are you, 18 mos., or some flyback.

If your sales techniques are well honed expect about a 50% return. Some will sit and the rest will go to the illigitimate.

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You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

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Tscarborough

You need to account for mobilization expenses. Note that this expense is about the same for a small or large job, but on the large job the expense is amortized over a greater value.

As an example (I will use masonry since that is what I know), you have 2 jobs:

Job A is a small patch and fill job, say 2 windows and a door. You have to move a mixer and all needed equipment to the site, order the material, and schedule forces.

Job B is a new construction house veneer, and you have to do the exact same things, but the total value of the job will be much greater, therefore reducing the mobilization cost as a percent of the total project.

theworx

You can't do the small jobs by square foot estimating. You have to figure that you have to lug in the same tools, supplies, setup, etc... as you would for a large job. You have to drive there over a few days (even if it's only two hours of work a day - taping or sanding)... That two hours probably takes you away from a larger more profitable job for 4 hours (travel time, getting your tools together, clean up, etc...). You have to figure out what the hassle of doing a small job is worth to you.

Personally I love the small jobs because I can charge good for them and usually spend a couple hours in a few evenings getting them done. That way I can still do the big jobs during the day and get some extra for the small job as well. It's like gravy on your potatoes.

dirt diggler

Yeah do NOT charge by sq. ft.

That's why your jobs are not seeming to be "worth it."

Establish minimum rates on your labor/time & etc. Use 4 hours.

Oh --- and never vary yourself from this 4 hour minimum rate. I have ONCE and it was only because I was related to the people

One more thing --- keep taking them --- I've gotten so much experience (not in business) just dealing with people (i.e. deadbeats, crooked HOs, etc) --- and have learned some BIG lessons on SMALL jobs that I can use in the big jobs.

Mike Finley

What Tscarborough said. Ditto.

DaveH

You could conceivably come up with a graduated rate based upon job size. As a drywall estimator let me tell you how I handle this, and as others have said the small jobs can be quite profitable. Take a look at the job as a whole not just the footage involved. As an experienced drywall tradesman you see what time is going to be involved. Lets say you need..

3 hours to hang

Your bed coat will be done the same day? Or not?

Then you have return trips for each subsiquent visit for skim and sanding.

And you material stocking and clean-up when finished.

Basically what is it going to take to do the job in a realistic real-time situation.

This is your labor.

If you have a set rate for your time you multiply it by your rate (Don't forget traveling time to and from)
Add your materials and profit...And Viola!

You might also go back to previous jobs and see what you bid them for and what you made, then figure how much more it would have taken to be "worth your while" to do them. Divide this by your SF of drywall and this could give you a baseline for your SF price if needed.
Hope this helps..
Dave

__________________
A buck a foot is not an estimate! It's a crap shoot!

Grumpy

The bottom line is raise your rates for smaller jobs and stop charging by the square foot for smaller jobs. Smaller jobs I price by the hour... however for my estimators who seem to have a problem figuring how many hours something takes, I have devised an estimating formula.

First I add a $150 mobilization fee to every job. This is to cover administrative headaches like ordering materials etc. This fee applies to every job regardless of size, large or small.

Then any jobs less than a specific size also recieve an additional "small job" fee. This fee varies by work type but hovers around the $500 mark. This is to increase the profit margin, since the job is smaller in size and we need to charge more to break even.

For example let's say I were to do 10 windows at $600 each, that's a $6,000 job, plus mobilization at $6,150.

If I were to do the same $600 window, but only 2 windows, the formula would look like this: $600 + $600 + $150 + $500 = $1,850

donb1959

Today I painted 2 gable ends (28') and 2 6 panel doors (1 side)...price $450.00 man hours involved including set up, clean up, etc......4 hours, I love small jobs.

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Teetorbilt

I love small jobs! I made $1,000 in 6 hrs.today, solo. Sorry if it took a little bit to get back to the phone, it was dead before noon.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

aiocinc

I went thru the same thing about 8 years ago when I started. If you are drywalling an entire house, price it by the square foot and you should be fine, as long as you are making about 25% markup on materials and your labor rates are in the range of $.45 to $60 per square foot. On jobs that are smaller than drywalling an entire house, you have to quote it based on how much time it will take to complete the job. In other words, how many hours times the number of people working times your billable hourly wage. Don't forget to make a markup on the guys that are working for you. Don't forget about profit for your company. Don't forget about overhead, tools, gas, insurance, etc. You would suprised how much people will pay. Just because it seems like a lot of money to you, it may be a great deal for the homeowner, especially since they probably do not know how to do the work themselves.

I also understand that being a new company, you cannot afford to lose even one deal. Unfortunately, this thinking will just put money in the pockets of the people that work for you and you will be left short on almost every job if you don't leave enough margin in it for you. A good rule of thumb that your prices are at about the right level is when you bid three jobs but only get one of them.

Don't forget, you can always quote a price to your customer that may seem a little bit high at the time. Make sure you follow up with the customer about every other day and, if you need to, lower your price a little bit to see if you can get them to commit. The more you call your potential customer and talk to them, the more information they will give you to determine why they haven't committed to giving you the work.

Lastly, even though they may be few and far between, if your price is considerably lower than the other bids the customer has received, they may perceive this as a reflection of the quality of work. We both know this is not the case, but customers can be odd. In general, the more you talk to them, the more open they become about sharing information, the more comfortable they become with you and the LESS the project becomes only about the price. Now being comfortable and confident in you, plus the fact that you followed up, will open up more profitable deals for you. Hope this helps.

Teetorbilt

I was roped into this job, kcking and screaming by an account that I'm attempting to regain.

I really hate being in the A/C while my buddy Bob sweats his behind off. I broke a sweat twice today...............going to the truck.

We all get to choose what we want to do.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

DaveH

Teetor,

That's it! I won't stand for it any longer...I'm sending you a sun umbrella so you don't have to break that sweat going to the truck!

OH THE HUMANITY!!!!

P.S. Living here in Florida.. summertime means waking up in the morning with sweat on your brow doesn't it?

__________________
A buck a foot is not an estimate! It's a crap shoot!

linkster01

Lots of helpfull posts. Thaks guys