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Shady Contractors or Shady Homeowners?

5K views 18 replies 10 participants last post by  VA Remodeler 
#1 ·
In the past years the majority of my customers would be happy to hear that we were planning to get permits and that liscenced people would be completing their project. But now it seems that there is an uprise in consumers that try to get around the permit process and I feel like I am losing work because of it. Not to mention when I bring up the lead paint thing and they look at me like I have a third eye! It just kills me when I hear about " shady contractors" and how homeowners should run away when the contractor tries to avoid the permits (and they should) but I wonder how many times the homeowner played a bigger part in getting themselves scammed than they lead on. Just wondering what you guys think.
 
#2 ·
Very few clients are opposed to permits or paying for them, although wi the way towns around here behave I wouldn't blame him. I dread the process.

The lead thing does freak people out, and I hate it. No one wants to deal with it and will find someone that doesn't care or doesn't know.
 
#3 ·
Generally speaking, with the rough economy out there and money being real tight, I can see homeowners saying to themselves "If we don't cut corners, we really won't be able to do this"!

That's one of my beefs about RRP. ...what great timing.

Planning on maybe getting a better price than a few years ago, now with the RRP in place many are saying: We got to pay how much more for something we don't even want??!!

As talked about before, RRP may actually drive down Permit applications. Homeowners that either know or feel comfortable towards the contractor, just may want to skip the whole "process" altogether and just concentrate on getting the job done.
 
#4 ·
...I was in a company meeting the other day and we were talking about dust containment. It was brought up that clients seems to just be in LOVE with zip walls and think they are the best thing ever, but if you go and try to explain the whole RRP thing their eyes glaze over and they get lost.
 
#5 ·
Allot of HO get caught now for doing stuff without permits.

For the past 3 years I been doing code violation repairs. Some towns in NJ, before you sell the house, the township inspects your house. The guy comes in and looks....Basement? goes to the office checks the folder for that address, if no permit. Some towns issue fines to the HO and make them take out a building permit, and send all the inspectors to inspect and bring everything to code....
 
#6 ·
I think with the economy this is something that will be on the rise for many years to come. I will be working on a code violation were the city wants HO not to drain downspouts into sewer. No problem, we will route it somewhere else. HO calls city office. They say to dump gravel down it and cover the top with a rag?? WTH?? If it drains into his main sewer line, why would you want gravel in there. The rag must be a new cap??

I have to call the office on Monday to see if we just cant dig the line down and glue a cap on. Maybe thats better than a rag on top?

Im sure of one thing thou, no matter what we do, it will require a permit.
 
#7 ·
I'm gonna keep in mind when meeting with potential clients that giving them less info may me be in our best interest. I will not even mention permits and if I get the job then theyll just see inspectors coming around! We use a lot of plastic, zip walls, carpet tape etc anyway. The only thing different is the suits and having them sign the paperwork. I guess I always wanted the H.O. To be informed and in this economy we have to do what it takes to keep working within reason. Thanks for the insight guys!
 
#8 ·
greg24k said:
Allot of HO get caught now for doing stuff without permits.

For the past 3 years I been doing code violation repairs. Some towns in NJ, before you sell the house, the township inspects your house. The guy comes in and looks....Basement? goes to the office checks the folder for that address, if no permit. Some towns issue fines to the HO and make them take out a building permit, and send all the inspectors to inspect and bring everything to code....
That's wrong. The city coming into your house and shaking you down one more time before you move.

http://www.ohiohomedoctorremodeling.com
 
#11 ·
greg24k said:
Maybe it is, or maybe not... Let me mention a few code violations that I had to correct and you tell me if its wrong or not.

Almost 16' span dining room and family room 2x 10 lumber the guy did a finished basement, and he put his grid to low and he cannot fit the 2 x 4 lights. So he cut the floor joists at the bottom 4" across the length of the basement right down in the middle to fit 6 lights.

Sink in the basement has no trap, and the vent for it left above the drop ceiling.

Electric live wires not capped all over the place... etc

Now let say that was you and your family was buying this house...

Wouldn't you appreciate the fact thet town has such inspections, to make sure you and your family are safe? I know I wouldn't think it's wrong.
No. I still wouldn't appreciate the intrusion. I just wouldn't buy the house.

As with everything in life, it's buyer beware. We've got to get out of this mentality of protecting everyone from themselves.

Those who are genuinely concerned about quality will always pay to do it right. Those who are hacks (contractors & homeowners) will always skirt around anyway. The only thing that's being accomplished by all these "laws & regs" is to make busywork and power for bureau-craps........

It's all justified in the name of money and power ( I mean safety and/or green ).

How did the grand old USA ever survive before all the current losers arrived on the scene to make it better????!
 
#17 ·
What intrusion? It has nothing to do with you... you the buyer. The seller has to fix everything and bring everything to code if something was done illigal... so you and your family is safe.
Maybe you know the joist is cut, most people don't and won't look above the drop ceiling, and obviously home inspector didn't look because drop ceiling looked good, or he saw and didn't say nothing because he don't know any better.

"The only thing that's being accomplished by all these "laws & regs" is to make busywork and power for bureau-craps........"

You a contractor, you play by rules and regulations, you take the permits out, and this inspections to find work done without permits help us and you should be thankful it generates more work for you... so I don't know what you not happy about.
 
#12 ·
Its like in Amherst NY, before your allowed to sell your house, you must have a certified electrician come in and hardwire smoke detectors in every single room of the house. You also must have carbon monoxide detectors thruogh out your home..

All these 'inspections' while they look good on paper cause nothing more than an added tax to home owners. that is essentially what it is. If you put in a hot water tank and dont pay the $25 tax, and the town finds out, its a $100 tax plus the building inspector comes into your home (with out a warrant) and looks to see if they can further tax you on other stuff.

its bull**** in my opinion.

If a person is buying a house they should pay for the inspection themselves and then discuss having the seller fix the problems before the buyer decides to buy. Leave the Govt out of it!

A big part of why we are in the mess we are in today is due to govt intrusion where it doesnt belong.
 
#13 ·
greg24k said:
Maybe it is, or maybe not... Let me mention a few code violations that I had to correct and you tell me if its wrong or not.

Almost 16' span dining room and family room 2x 10 lumber the guy did a finished basement, and he put his grid to low and he cannot fit the 2 x 4 lights. So he cut the floor joists at the bottom 4" across the length of the basement right down in the middle to fit 6 lights.

Sink in the basement has no trap, and the vent for it left above the drop ceiling.

Electric live wires not capped all over the place... etc

Now let say that was you and your family was buying this house...

Wouldn't you appreciate the fact thet town has such inspections, to make sure you and your family are safe? I know I wouldn't think it's wrong.
No, thats what home inspections are for. The govt has no business in these matters. Private inspector comes out and the issues are corrected with a reduction of the sale price. The govt could mess up a wet dream......

http://www.ohiohomedoctorremodeling.com
 
#18 ·
greg24k said:
What intrusion? It has nothing to do with you... you the buyer. The seller has to fix everything and bring everything to code if something was done illigal... so you and your family is safe.
Maybe you know the joist is cut, most people don't and won't look above the drop ceiling, and obviously home inspector didn't look because drop ceiling looked good, or he saw and didn't say nothing because he don't know any better.

"The only thing that's being accomplished by all these "laws & regs" is to make busywork and power for bureau-craps........"

You a contractor, you play by rules and regulations, you take the permits out, and this inspections to find work done without permits help us and you should be thankful it generates more work for you... so I don't know what you not happy about.
It has everything to do with me as an American not wanting to be controlled by excessive government regulations whether I'm the buyer, seller, or contractor! I want all these do-gooders who think they need to protect us from ourselves and every possible calamity that might potentially be a threat to start minding their OWN business for a change. It has been a slow creeping brain-washing in society that we NEED the gov't to mandate and legislate all this stuff when it comes to code enforcement, building regulations, etc.

It just ain't so......and as was mentioned just above, the sooner we flush this mentality down the drain, the better off we will be.

There's dozens of other countries out there who continue to try to make similar failed experiments work. I just wish those intent on it here in the US would go there instead of wrecking this real-estate too!

Now lest you get me wrong, I'm NOT against working properly, safely and using established procedures as a contractor. I'm not against doing things the correct way.

However, I have plenty of jobs right now to keep me busy without govt intrusion helping that along!

(My intent is not political with this post. I believe we as contractors can help educate the public to discern shady homeowners and contractors without needing the govt involved.)
 
#19 ·
It has everything to do with me as an American not wanting to be controlled by excessive government regulations whether I'm the buyer, seller, or contractor! I want all these do-gooders who think they need to protect us from ourselves and every possible calamity that might potentially be a threat to start minding their OWN business for a change. It has been a slow creeping brain-washing in society that we NEED the gov't to mandate and legislate all this stuff when it comes to code enforcement, building regulations, etc.

It just ain't so......and as was mentioned just above, the sooner we flush this mentality down the drain, the better off we will be.
Well stated.

Exactly how I feel about it.
 
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