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Salesman Commission

 
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:40 AM   #41
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Re: Salesman Commission


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I meant to say I would not hire a Salesman who would did not want to work on commission. Typo. I have stated many times I do not believe in salaried salespeople.

There is no difference to me from someone who charges $100 an hour to siding to raise their price to 125 an hour, not because their business expenses went up but because the market is hot and the demand is up. That is how business works. It is not a sin to make profit.


The above par money is no different to me. It changes on a daily basis for some companies, I would imagine service companies and roofing companies that need 5 roofs a week or 40 service calls a week may change their prices when they have a book schedule. There is nothing wrong with that.

I do not do a service-based business, our turn around as much longer. I have however raised my percentages which are visible to the client many times and my labor rates many times. That has been asked about, you did Sally's job for X percentage, this is y%? And I respond honestly, I charge y now. Not that hard

I think it all depends on the personality of the business owner, the type of business they run and the way they handle business. From what we have discussed on this forum my clients would not dig your style of business and yours would not dig mine. It does not mean that yours would talk bad about you or mine would talk bad about me. Just different styles

To be clear if I lived out of state and someone I knew through reputation did my mom's roof on my referral because I could not get there and he charged more than then he had previously and I asked him about it and he said that he raised his prices due to being booked for a couple months I would not look un kindly on that. I also do not get mad at the gas or oil companies for raising their prices during a boom for the most part. It is supply and demand, the basis of any business

As far as what I consider gouging, it is just that. Is what I consider gouging. I would direct my sales person like anyone else on my staff or under my direction, and be clear on what is acceptable and what is not.

Doubling a roof price because you think that the person will pay it is not okay with me for instance, adding 10% to the cost because you are booked is not something I think is a bad thing. But that is for the individual business owner to decide
You set two points that you still haven't addressed which seem at odds with your above posts but might be illustrative to the discussion...

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I would certainly make sure there was not anybody gouging
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I would certainly make clear what is acceptable and what is not acceptable as far as an upcharge.
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Par is what it costs to be in business and make a profit... hard to see how you then define what's "gouging" when you go passed that other than your personal opinion which just ends up being another superfluous par because you set a cap you think is not gouging...

But it'd be interesting to hear how you would determine what you would consider gouging once you've passed par and what the new cap would be...

But then again...
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Not following you here... if you are OK with your salesperson upcharging past par for a split of higher commission for him and increased profit for you, meaning you get a percentage as well as the salesperson, why would you need to personally make the sale and how would it be wasting the salespersons time for to do so? A sale is a sale...

Last edited by KAP; 12-13-2017 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:43 AM   #42
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Re: Salesman Commission


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You set two points that you still haven't addressed which seem at odds with your above posts but might be illustrative to the discussion...




What do you mean? I just said I would stake what gouging is in my own company. I would be able to make sure my company policy is followed by making sure the salesperson did not exceed what we had discussed. That's it.

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Old 12-13-2017, 10:45 AM   #43
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Re: Salesman Commission


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What do you mean? I just said I would stake what gouging is in my own company. I would be able to make sure my company policy is followed by making sure the salesperson did not exceed what we had discussed. That's it.

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As far as whatever else you're talking about at the bottom, I think I made it pretty clear that if it is somebody that I would not want full rate charge to then I would handle the sale myself to not waste their time. How I choose to charge people is my business. By reputation I would imagine most people think we are fair.

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Old 12-13-2017, 10:52 AM   #44
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Re: Salesman Commission


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What do you mean? I just said I would stake what gouging is in my own company. I would be able to make sure my company policy is followed by making sure the salesperson did not exceed what we had discussed. That's it.
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I would certainly make sure there was not anybody gouging

I thought it pretty clear...

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Par is what it costs to be in business and make a profit... hard to see how you then define what's "gouging" when you go passed that other than your personal opinion which just ends up being another superfluous par because you set a cap you think is not gouging...

But it'd be interesting to hear how you would determine what you would consider gouging once you've passed par and what the new cap would be...

But then again...

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Old 12-13-2017, 10:54 AM   #45
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Re: Salesman Commission


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I thought it pretty clear...
You are a most difficult person I have ever tried to communicate with on the interwebs. That's saying a lot. LOL.

Use your big boy words and state what you are saying clearly and concisely and not in a novel form. Are you asking me what percentage specifically I would consider gouging? Or do you not understand the very simple premise of what I just said? I am not being snide I am asking a legitimate question. A lot of times I think you are trolling which I hope is not the case maybe just a communication barrier. I am not the only one who has this issue I assure you.

For me, try to keep your questions very blunt and clear. Don't make general questions if you want a specific answer

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Old 12-13-2017, 11:09 AM   #46
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Re: Salesman Commission


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You are a most difficult person I have ever tried to communicate with on the interwebs. That's saying a lot. LOL.

Use your big boy words and state what you are saying clearly and concisely and not in a novel form. Are you asking me what percentage specifically I would consider gouging? Or do you not understand the very simple premise of what I just said? I am not being snide I am asking a legitimate question. A lot of times I think you are trolling which I hope is not the case maybe just a communication barrier. I am not the only one who has this issue I assure you.

For me, try to keep your questions very blunt and clear. Don't make general questions if you want a specific answer

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Novel? if you can't read and process clearly highlighted red and bolded letters I can understand why you have difficulty reading it... since even the short form of the "novel" (i.e. - highlighted ad bolded letters) apparently seem to trip you up, let's put it another way so it's "blunt" ...

You state that it's what the market will bear so no problem with charging over par but then also say that you wouldn't want to gouge... I simply asked how you would determine what is gouging juxtaposed against your position of free market... Can't make it any simpler than that...



As to "trolling" , only someone interested in obfuscating and playing word games instead of answering trolls... not my MO... I answer every question put to me... I participate and discuss things in detail not gloss over them with platitudes as this is a knowledge base and there's usually more to the story that everyone can learn from because we all have our preconceptions... I could care less who else thinks as you do if they think I'm "trolling"... I can't control how your or their brain is wired and have no interest in doing so and that attempt is more worthy of the basement as opposed to the knowledgebase...

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Old 12-13-2017, 11:15 AM   #47
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Re: Salesman Commission


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Novel? if you can't read and process clearly highlighted red and bolded letters I can understand why you have difficulty reading it... since even the short form of the "novel" (i.e. - highlighted ad bolded letters) apparently seem to trip you up, let's put it another way so it's "blunt" ...

You state that it's what the market will bear so no problem with charging over par but then also say that you wouldn't want to gouge... I simply asked how you would determine what is gouging juxtaposed against your position of free market... Can't make it any simpler than that...



As to "trolling" , only someone interested in obfuscating and playing word games instead of answering trolls... not my MO... I answer every question put to me... I participate and discuss things in detail not gloss over them with platitudes as this is a knowledge base and there's usually more to the story that everyone can learn from because we all have our preconceptions... I could care less who else thinks as you do if they think I'm "trolling"... I can't control how your or their brain is wired and have no interest in doing so...
My whole point was raising your price because the market is higher than normal is not gouging. What percentage I considered gouging would be determined at that time. How would I know at this time, I am a custom builder not a roofer. I do not know how I would base a business like Roofing or Service Plumbing or service electrician or anything else because I have not considered it. What I have considered as I do not personally find it gouging to raise your price because you are in demand. That's it

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Old 12-13-2017, 11:23 AM   #48
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Re: Salesman Commission


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My whole point was raising your price because the market is higher than normal is not gouging. What percentage I considered gouging would be determined at that time. How would I know at this time, I am a custom builder not a roofer. I do not know how I would base a business like Roofing or Service Plumbing or service electrician or anything else because I have not considered it. What I have considered as I do not personally find it gouging to raise your price because you are in demand. That's it

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Market is higher than normal, you're a custom builder, and you raise your price because you are in demand... the question becomes (rather highlights) how higher before it becomes gouging?

Based on your list, how would even begin to determine a method as a business then what you consider gouging? You seem to set an arbitrary threshold earlier with not wanting to charge double...

This is important...

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Old 12-13-2017, 11:35 AM   #49
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Re: Salesman Commission


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Market is higher than normal, you're a custom builder, and you raise your price because you are in demand... the question becomes how higher before it becomes gouging?

Based on your list, how would even begin to determine a method as a business then what you consider gouging?

This is important...
My whole point was raising your price because the market is higher than normal is not gouging. What percentage I considered gouging would be determined at that time. How would I know at this time, I am a custom builder not a roofer. I do not know how I would base a business like Roofing or Service Plumbing or service electrician or anything else because I have not considered it. What I have considered as I do not personally find it gouging to raise your price because you are in demand. That's it

I raise my percentage every year. When I stop getting calls I will stop racing it. LOL.
Let's use a fixed bid project instead of my normal Cost Plus bases - say a commercial company asked me to build a warehouse for them. I tell them that I will not be able to do it for 6 months and they are adamant that they want me to build it and they want it done within 90 days, that person will be seeing a very sharp spike in percentage. To me personally, that is a no way gouging, that is me accommodating their schedule and rewarding my efforts for doing so.

Say a lady calls me to build her a boat dock and I think she does not understand how money works and that I can charge her whatever I want and she will pay it because I have the strong referral base behind this call to get it so I doubled the price that would be grouching to me. It is taking advantage.

Percentage is not a good basis for this conversation in reality, the percentage that I charge to build something and it what bam charges to tear a roof off and replace it are going to be vastly different. So if he did increase his profit by 50% it would be in no way the same as me increasing my profit on a six-figure project by 50%. That is why specifics don't work in this case.

But to try to accommodate your question, say he was replacing my roof because I was an accountant or something and didn't know how to roof, LOL, and he would normally charge me $39,000 for the roof but he is booked up and has sales calls stacking up on his desk and the salesperson decides to go for 43,000 that would not bother me. If it is a fixed-price contract no one would ever know the difference, so that is up to the Integrity of the salesperson and his boss which in this case is Bam on what they feel is appropriate.

Integrity - self honesty, is the only thing I am would be willing to discuss on this matter any further. It is up to the individual business owner kjp, that is all there is to it to me. If one guy thinks that he should be paid $20,000 in profit no matter what for changing a roof out and another guy thinks it is okay to make $2,000 and another 10k none of them is wrong, because its their business. Their reputation. Their company. Their risk. Not mune not yours not the clients

One of them will probably be rich and one of them will be poor and 1 out of business LOL. The guy charging 20000 will probably go out of business, 2k be poor and maybe the guy in the middle get gets rich. Or maybe the guy charges 20000 only needs to do 30 roofs a year and is highly sought-after in a high-income market and becomes very comfortable not working very hard, maybe the $10,000 guy goes out of business because he doesn't show enough value, and maybe the $2,000 guy goes out of business because he is overhead is eating him alive. Any one of these combinations in a million others are possible. It's all relative

The guy who charges 20000 is not gouging if his customer chooses that and he is okay with making 20,000. If he feels guilty and is charging that because of greed or whatever else then he is not being honest with himself and I feel that that is gouging personally. Not that it matters, like I said it's not my business. People have the option in a free-market to choose who they want to do business with

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Last edited by Jaws; 12-13-2017 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:47 AM   #50
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Re: Salesman Commission


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My whole point was raising your price because the market is higher than normal is not gouging. What percentage I considered gouging would be determined at that time. How would I know at this time, I am a custom builder not a roofer. I do not know how I would base a business like Roofing or Service Plumbing or service electrician or anything else because I have not considered it. What I have considered as I do not personally find it gouging to raise your price because you are in demand. That's it

I raise my percentage every year. When I stop getting calls I will stop racing it. LOL.
Let's use a fixed bid project instead of my normal Cost Plus bases - say a commercial company asked me to build a warehouse for them. I tell them that I will not be able to do it for 6 months and they are adamant that they want me to build it and they want it done within 90 days, that person will be seeing a very sharp spike in percentage. To me personally, that is a no way gouging, that is me accommodating their schedule and rewarding my efforts for doing so.

Say a lady calls me to build her a boat dock and I think she does not understand how money works and that I can charge her whatever I want and she will pay it because I have the strong referral base behind this call to get it so I doubled the price that would be grouching to me. It is taking advantage.

Percentage is not a good basis for this conversation in reality, the percentage that I charge to build something and it what bam charges to tear a roof off and replace it are going to be vastly different. So if he did increase his profit by 50% it would be in no way the same as me increasing my profit on a six-figure project by 50%. That is why specifics don't work in this case.

But to try to accommodate your question, say he was replacing my roof because I was an accountant or something and didn't know how to roof, LOL, and he would normally charge me $39,000 for the roof but he is booked up and has sales calls stacking up on his desk and the salesperson decides to go for 43,000 that would not bother me. If it is a fixed-price contract no one would ever know the difference, so that is up to the Integrity of the salesperson and his boss which in this case is Bam on what they feel is appropriate.

Integrity - self honesty, is the only thing I am would be willing to discuss on this matter any further. It is up to the individual business owner kjp, that is all there is to it to me. If one guy thinks that he should be paid $20,000 in profit no matter what for changing a roof out and another guy thinks it is okay to make $2,000 and another 10k none of them is wrong, because its their business. Their reputation. Their company. Their risk. Not mune not yours not the clients

One of them will probably be rich and one of them will be poor and 1 out of business LOL. The guy charging 20000 will probably go out of business, 2k be poor and maybe the guy in the middle get gets rich. Or maybe the guy charges 20000 only needs to do 30 roofs a year and is highly sought-after in a high-income market and becomes very comfortable not working very hard, maybe the $10,000 guy goes out of business because he doesn't show enough value, and maybe the $2,000 guy goes out of business because he is overhead is eating him alive. Any one of these combinations in a million others are possible. It's all relative

The guy who charges 20000 is not gouging if his customer chooses that and he is okay with making 20,000. If he feels guilty and is charging that because of greed or whatever else then he is not being honest with himself and I feel that that is gouging personally. Not that it matters, like I said it's not my business. People have the option in a free-market to choose who they want to do business with

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That's quite a novel...

Joking aside, that was a lot of words to say you don't know and is based on the feeling at the time not any particular business method...

But the closest you came to actually zeroing in on the first half of the question which highlights the deficit in the argument...

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The guy who charges 20000 is not gouging if his customer chooses that and he is okay with making 20,000.
So you can only conclude that you don't personally consider it gouging if the guy charging is happy with the charge and what he's making and the customer chooses to pay it... would that be a fair assessment?

If so, based on that perspective, there is no such thing as gouging... reality states different and all I was trying to do was to understand what business method you use to determine if you are heading into gouging territory for your company ... the closest you came to a cap when you considered it objectionable was "double the price"...

Important discussion...
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:52 AM   #51
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Re: Salesman Commission


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That's quite a novel...

Joking aside, that was a lot of words to say you don't know and is based on the feeling at the time not any particular business method...

But the closest you came to actually zeroing in on the first half of the question which highlights the deficit in the argument...



So you can only conclude that you don't personally consider it gouging if the guy charging is happy with the charge and what he's making and the customer chooses to pay it... would that be a fair assessment?

If so, based on that perspective, there is no such thing as gouging... reality states different and all I was trying to do was to understand what business method you use to determine if you are heading into gouging territory ... the closest you came to a cap was "double the price"...

Important discussion...
Touche' lol

I do not believe you can gout somebody who is willing to pay a price and can afford it and you feel that the price was appropriate. If you are not being honest with yourself and you do feel like it is ripping somebody off than you are doing just that - ripping somebody off.


I'm 34, by the time I'm 45 there is no telling what I will charge for say, a boat dock if the Market stay strong and I don't mess up my reputation or company. I know I charge a lot more now than I did 10 years ago and I have never felt like I was ripping somebody off, if I did that I reduce the bill.

My point is if you look at my price now vs 26 or 45 they will be vastly different probably. And the $2,000 and the $10,000 guy will say that the $20,000 guy is gouging when in reality he is not, it's between him and his customers.

When I think of gouging I think of a plumber ripping off a little old lady because she doesn't know how much she should be paying for something. Or a builder selling a Cadillac and delivering a Chevy Malibu or a roofer lying about the quality of his shingles and making it out to be that they are the best shingles on the market when they are really just above par

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Old 12-13-2017, 12:03 PM   #52
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I do not believe you can gout somebody who is willing to pay a price and can afford it and you feel that the price was appropriate. If you are not being honest with yourself and you do feel like it is ripping somebody off than you are doing just that - ripping somebody off.

My point is if you look at my price now vs 26 or 45 they will be vastly different probably. And the $2,000 and the $10,000 guy will say that the $20,000 guy is gouging when in reality he is not, it's between him and his customers.

When I think of gouging I think of a plumber ripping off a little old lady because she doesn't know how much she should be paying for something.
Uhm...
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:13 PM   #53
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Uhm...
Nevermind bud. My weight is over and I have other stuff to do.

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