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#141 | |
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DavidC
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NNY
Posts: 1,917
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And SuccessQuote:
Keeping with the season, I'm so, so thankful that I don't have to work for everybody. Indeed I couldn't work for everybody. So my choice is to not work for those that need the lowest price period. Ask your potentials how they will know when they have found the right contractor. If they mention price, ask how they will know the right price. If it's the lowest one excuse yourself and be thankful too. If it doesn't follow this tack then they will tell you what you need to know to sell them at your price. You will not need to talk and present excessively. Good Luck Dave
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www.CookContractingLLC.com |
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#142 |
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Member
Trade: deck and life visionary professional
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South jersey
Posts: 68
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
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Dream as if you will live forever; live as if you will die tomorrow" Last edited by T. D. G.; 12-06-2008 at 08:43 AM. |
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#143 | |
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Member
Trade: deck and life visionary professional
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South jersey
Posts: 68
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And SuccessQuote:
Know my numbers Know my customer Make the sale. I 'm aware there is a market standard in pricing but if your to low you must have forgot something. and if your to high all the time someone else is more competitive than you. Some win some lose. "Brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakespeare.
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Dream as if you will live forever; live as if you will die tomorrow" |
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#144 |
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God
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Brian, great advise for those who bid. on the other hand i dont bid or est. i charge by the hour, i am a Handyman. my question is: for residential customers i charge $65/hr. and for commercial i charge $75/ hr. both with a minimum charge of an hour. the people i have spoken with tell me i charge too much but my contractor friends tell me i am charging too little. I am new to being a contractor, just got my license and insurance, bond. been in the trades for 7 years and a 3rd generation carpenter. the work is plentiful. thanks guys for the help.
Tim |
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#145 |
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Pro
Trade: Professional Carpenter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hanover PA
Posts: 125
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Thanks to everyone for sharing their experience and information in this thread.
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#146 |
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Registered User
Trade: General
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
I've been reading this site for a while to learn.. I got put in a situation of trying to help a friend out but got sucked in so now I have to learn everything I can. This article is the one that made me sign up.. not necessarily to post more but just to show my appreciation and thanks for all the information everyone put in. I greatly appreciate it as I'm starting from scratch with this business.. I've had a restaurant and nightclub I do things on the spur of the moment I'm a learner and like to learn. So as far as this topic it's a well deserved thanks and if I knew where in Houston you were "Brian" I'd definitely bring you a nice bottle of whatever your favorite beverage is just to show my appreciation. Seriously Thanks.
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#147 |
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Registered User
Trade: trim carpentry
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
ok so I printed off everything you said Brian. I am trim carpenter who just lost my job a week before Christmas. I am not a numbers guy at all. I was working triming out custom homes for a guy who paid me 21 an hour CDN. I was the lead hand and was respected by my builders. I have decided to try to go out on my own as I have the tools and means to do so. I have a meeting set up next week with one of the builders I have trimmed like 300 homes for but as an employee to this other guy. I am trying to digest what you all have said but now I am scared and not sure how to figure all this out. Can you please excuse the fact that you may be repeating yourselves. I just have two little girls and a wife on mat leave and I know I can do this. I am good, fast and honest. I just need some good advice. I also have another employee who is will to come along if I can get a site.
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#148 |
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Registered User
Trade: trim carpentry
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
I am in ontario Canada
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#149 |
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Registered User
Trade: Home Remodeler/General Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
I have been a home remodeler (GC) for a little over 20 years now. I find it hard in this economy (when other people will underbid their jobs), I find myself one of these people. I just started my own business a little over 1 year ago. Last year was a fairly good year for a start and I kept busy but this year has been slower. I cannot yet afford to have someone come to work for me because workmans compensation is too expensive for me to pay. I sometimes underbid my jobs taking a pay cut and find that it's the only way that I can get the jobs.
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#150 |
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Registered User
Trade: General Construction, Masonry, and Painting
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
I liked your article. I'm a retired contractor. One thing that people fail to realize when trying to get information from the internet is that prices vary from state to state. So if a guy in Texas gets X amount of dollars for hanging X amount of drywall, a guy in Alabama may get less and a guy in New York may get more. So you need to study your market area and research going rates for your area.
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#151 |
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Registered User
Trade: residential
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Brian, It seems to me that your message was GOD sent to me for the simple fact of Timeing! Thank You Personaly. jr
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#152 |
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Pro
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,388
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Impressive post Brian. I agree totaly. A wise man told me once that if you bid ten jobs and get seven of them, your pricing too cheap.
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#153 |
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Pro
Trade: Remodeling Specialist - General Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chesterton Indiana
Posts: 160
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Lots of good information here.
By and large, the general public isn't very trusting of contractors, and the mystery surrounding pricing is one of the main reasons why. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. At the bottom of the barrel, you have the illegals and ex cons scrounging to make a buck any way they can. You could get lucky and find something of value in this group, but you're taking a big gamble by giving money to these guys. Sure the price is dirt cheap, but the quality is a complete crap shoot. Not to mention that what your doing is illegal. On the second tier are your unlicensed guys. You can include the HO's best friend's uncle in this group. The work may or may not be good quality and the customer may or may not really care. They'll get what they pay for. On the third tier, you have legitimate licensed, insured, bonded contrators. It seems that most posters on this forum would fall into this category. However, we all know that even within this tier, not all are created equal. We have different standards and capabilities. We have different employees, different subs, and as mentioned at the outset, different overheads, and profit goals. So, if a HO refuses to consider tier 1 and 2 services, how do they really know if they're getting a fair price and good service just because they use a legal company? They don't. They still have no clue. In their minds, the pricing is still too subjective from one company to the next. This is what drives them crazy. If you decide that your business model is to compete on price, then go for it. Dig in, drive your overhead down, figure out where you can beat the other guy, and come up with a pricing system that allows you to close X of jobs to make X profit. On the other hand, if you don't want to play the pricing game, you better learn how to sell the value of your services.
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Northwest Indiana General Contractor Northwest Indiana Remodeling Contractor Indiana Bath Remodeling Indiana Kitchen Remodeling Last edited by HomerJ; 02-08-2009 at 12:56 AM. |
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| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to HomerJ For This Useful Post: | dgarton (10-18-2010), LivinTheDream (12-26-2009) |
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#154 |
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master plumber
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Hi, I'm new to this great site. I'm a master plumber in NYC, and in business since 1993. To me estimating process can be simplified to certain extent. 1st you have to have historical accounting data for your company, the best source is your p&l reports done by accountant, if you running large projects, you will need cost to cost accrual corrections. from these reports you know overhead to cogs ratio. to distinguish overhead from cogs, i always ask myself a question, for what job this transaction was made? if i can name the job, than it is cogs, if i cannot, it is overhead. as a sample electric bill for the office is overhead, lavatory bough for customer is cost of goods sold, lavatory bough for my office is overhead., than i would figure out extent of work, man hours necessary to complete the project, all materials necessary to complete the project, all other associated costs necessary to complete the project, such as permits costs, expediting, supervision, bonds, financing etc. Very important to add lading to labor cost, loading is allocated costs of payroll taxes, all contributions, vacations, medical insurance costs, unemployment etc, all costs associated with labor. after adding it all up, i apply my ratio from p&l statement, and will figure out how much will job cost to me without making any profit. after that i add my profit and this will be the job price. What strikes me, when somebody quotes job 2-3 times lower than mine. go figure.
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#155 |
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Structural Engineer
Trade: Mechanical, Structural
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 513
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
GT,
Early on in my career, I had the luxury of someone more experienced checking my estimating work. (I did capital project budget estimating for a large chemical corp.) I learned early that there's a direct correlation between a whacked out bid (high or low) and the amount of time you spend on the take off. It got driven in to me that a rigorous method will win out over winging it any day. I used to always come in low, and every now and then way high. But the old the old salts of the corporation had my back and checked my work, and pointedly asked questions like "where's the take off for this? where'd you get the material cost for this chiller? how'd you figure the steel for this structure?" I got whipped into being accurate. From experience, I can say for probably 90% of the time the folks that come in low aren't doing their estimates properly. The other 10% are trying to price you out of a lucrative customer or are trying to drive a nail in your coffin. We just quoted a steel job for a nationwide pharmacy chain. We get the first store, and every store will be getting the same basic structural changes. So we went in basically at cost just to try and get it, knowing there will be a bunch more work coming down the road. We're also quoting a big multiple boiler job, where the chillers and cooling towers are going to get let out to the guy that wins the boilers. I'm sure each of the firms bidding the boilers will be super aggressive on the boilers, knowing the chillers and cooling towers will be handed to them. |
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#156 |
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master plumber
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Of course, taking off job is time consuming , but I use computerized estimating system, allowing me to do take off from the drawings, and I have subscription from pricing house, allowing me to have up to date pricing, and I'm able to cut estimating time 4 to 6 times. there is more to that, but guessing on estimating is a Russian roulette.
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#157 |
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Registered User
Trade: electrical contractor
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 10
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Just out of curiosity what program are you using and will it do electrical?
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www.srelectric.org Texarkana,TX Electrical Contractor |
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#158 |
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master plumber
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
i'm using wendes system, but there many others, such as quickpen, fast pipe and others, if you search google you will find them, for pricing updates I'm using harrison publishing house, their e office is good, and it has link for downloading price update directly to wenpipe.I'm sure you will find electrical estimating software, they all have free trial periods, and from my experience it has learning curve, and a few sessions with software representative is a must.
Gena
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#159 |
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Pro
Trade: Insurance Broker - Commercial Construction
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 120
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Insurance has been touched upon in some of the previous posts but mostly as just a flat charge to be worked back to a per diem cost for the job. It is important to consider, especially on larger jobs, what the contract specifies you have to carry. For example, if you only have $2 million Liability insurance but the contract owner requires you to carry $5 million, you are going to have to buy extra insurance. Rather than trying to figure it out yourself, you should get your insurance broker to do the work for you; after all that's what they got paid for when you gave them your business. And, if they make a mistake, then you can get them to cover the mistake, instead of you having to swallow it.
I work at a large insurance brokerage in their commercial construction division and part of my day is reviewing the insurance specs on tender documents for our clients. I've run into cases where the contractor didn't check beforehand, then figured they would just get by with the insurance program they already had in place so that they wouldn't have the extra costs that they didn't account for at the estimating stage. Unfortunately, I've had contractors threatened with breach of contract if they didn't provide a Certificate of Insurance including "ALL" the listed insurance. I routinely point out to our contractors what extra costs to carry, such as do you have to provide the Builders Risk (Course-of-Construction) property insurance or is the owner going to provide it. Pollution Liability insurance is another very common one, especially on government contracts nowadays - seeing that environmental issues are a hot political topic. I also point out what part of the insurance section they should try to have amended before signing on the bottom line so that the contract is not too one-sided against them. It doesn't cost you anything extra to get your insurance broker to review the insurance section of your tenders/contracts. If there is bonding involved, you have to get in touch with them anyway. It should be part of your estimating "To-Do List" even if it is just to get the response that "All okay; no extra insurance costs to consider". |
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#160 |
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Registered User
Trade: General
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5
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Re: Pricing, Estimating, And Success
Being new with wet ink on my license I find this thread to be informative with a variety of varying perspectives. How different people look at things is a huge benefit in that it opens different avenues for my thought process to travel. Assimilating a lot of information fast is part of the challenge and I'm thankful for everyone's willingness to share a little something.
Cheers |
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