Ownership Of Valuable Scrap Materials?

mudpad

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Steve

dprimc

Seriously???? You mean work writing contracts to screw people? Sounds like the basis for a long and prosperous career.

Mike's Plumbing

How can you not follow this? Do you need more examples? I'm at a loss for words. If your an accountant then make your money doing accounting, if your the president of the U.S. then make your money by leading.

If you need more examples I can keep this list going just let me know.

Mike

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A. Spruce

I have to say, I'm a bit confused myself. Anything on the premises prior to work beginning belongs to the owner of the property. Anything that is removed and replaced becomes waste that is removed by the prime GC or trade related sub, ergo becoming the property of said prime or sub, UNLESS stipulated by contract that designates ownership.

A caveat is when appurtenances are to be reused on the project, then again it should be stipulated in the contract that said items will be stored and reused.

If I call my electrician to come and rewire a room, any debris he creates - including wire waste - is his to deal with. Same goes for the AC guy, the drywall guy, the plumber, the framer, etc., etc., yada, yada, yada. If I do the demolition, then removal/disposal of the debris is my responsibility. Notice I keep using the term DEBRIS. If it's useless to the job, it's junk, garbage, trash, going to the landfill. If the owner wants to salvage that's up to them, they deal with it. If I want to salvage, I do it off site at my own expense. Regardless, my contracts have always stipulated that debris will be removed from site, with any appropriate disposal fees included in the bid.

Mike's Plumbing

That's a big word Spruce....I had to look it up.

Mike

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A. Spruce

I wanted to use superkalafragilisticecspyalydocious, but then you'd have thought I was just making sh*t up!

CCCo.

Only on 90210 day!

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Mike's Plumbing

I don't know about you guys but this thread actually made me dumber for participating in it.

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dprimc

How can you feel dumber if you already learned a new word????

CCCo.

Look at his avatar, and say that again, oh man I laughed.

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CCCo.

I think that there is only really one dummy on this thread, but I refuse to point fingers

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A. Spruce

No need to point fingers, just type slowly and use big letters!

Mike's Plumbing

Well.....I can see where this thread is going......once again.

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S.R.E.

Yes, putting together contracts can be hard work.
Especially If your a sub trying to do work with guys like you.
Don't worry I think you get "plenty dirty" when you are writing contracts.
Really the scrap has nothing to do with your post. Your just trying to make a contractor think he will make some money on a job then turn around and stiff him with your contract. There is a local GC around here that you remind me of. Problem is he can't find any subs to work for him so he started doing all the sub's work in house. Now he's in really big trouble cause he has no sub's to stiff.

A. Spruce

At least he gets to keep the scrap!

Electric_Light

From the feedback... I'm going to refrain from deliberate omission. Thanks guys. It hasn't been done yet, something that crossed my mind, but well, I won't do it.

Electric_Light

Assumption here is that the requester is a GC, but that may not necessarily be the case. If the owner solicits for bid, I understand that neither the sub(s) nor the GC are granted any form of automatic ownership.

Putting together contracts *IS* hard work, especially when you have to make sure subs don't find a way to create billable charge beyond bid amount like frivolous equipment cost(i.e. equipment charge on something that isn't being used, i.e. hourly rate on a light trailer during daytime) or try to look for every error possible and charge usurious C.O. rate which makes it necessary to write up a whole section about how C.O. pricing will be handled.

Bob Kovacs

Well, that's the kind of stuff you have to do when the party you're contracted with tries to screw you by deliberately omitting something from the contract in order to profit from it. You now have to play his game, and screw him every chance you get.

Maybe writing contracts wouldn't be so hard if you weren't creating an adversarial environment.

mudpad

I agree with Bob, to a point.

But if you are hiring subs that you haven't worked with before and don't know anything about, you have to CYA.

Our company (and I assume any company that writes a lot of contracts) has a package of documents (partial lien release, list of suppliers, schedule of values, scope of work, schedule, bond etc etc,) and standard boiler plate verbiage in each contract that covers 99% of the standard potential "misunderstandings". These documents and Instructions for each are included with the contract package. All this must be acknowledged and or filled out and returned with the signed contract prior to starting work. Sometimes with subs that we know well we will start with a "letter of intent", but no moneys will be paid out until all the paper work is in place.

This makes the actually contract writing a matter of just a couple of lines, specific to the job, and tweaking the standard "scope of work" for the particular trade for that particular job.

That makes the actual contract writing quite easy, as long as you understand the scope of work.

Getting the "bricks and mortar" work done is quite a bit more difficult.

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Steve

Electric_Light

What I find really shameful is people who just download, trade or buy contract documents then change out a few words but do not actually FULLY UNDERSTAND the contract himself. Those people really should sit down with an attorney and talk until they really understand what each clause means.

I could be writing a contract as an owner's rep or a GC's rep. Even in a case if I'm with the owner, I now feel stating the title to scrap or disposable procedure is a good idea, so there won't be bickering between the GC and it sub over who gets dibs on scrap and hinder the progress of project in general.

You guys should check out this thread. Contractors like them are the reason why its necessary to write a 20 page contract covering every possible BS subs may possibly try. Of course, honest subs read through it and it wouldn't really affect them. When dishonest subs who tries to find a way to allocate GCs $$$ in an amount more than he should be entitled to through some non-sense the looong fine prints make sure they don't get it.

As I said a few posts ago, it crossed my mind, but thinking again... its unethical so no way I'll do that deliberate omission thing.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f14/aa...44/#post975144

I'm not sure how the posters here work, but bid job where you submit a firm price and have to be among the lowest bidders to get awarded the job is different from resi work where you name the price and use sales work to talk HOs into choosing you. Lowest bid don't necessarily get the work if they're known for cutting corners, known for looking for problems to find a cause to do C.O.'s etc.