The Other Guys Had That Included In Their Bid

Ed the Roofer

Did you ever pull out the change order sheet for some unspecified work, and tell the homeowner that this item was not included in the scope of work, so it will cost XX more dollars?

Then, the customer tells you that the other guy(s) all had that included in their bids/contracts.

Share a learning lesson on how that situation was dealt with.

Psst! My secret answer is below.


















Once you get your contract authorized by the homeowner, ask them if you could please have the copies of all of the other quotes he received from other contractors. Once you have them in your possession, they can not keep on flip flopping on you to continue to campare bids.

The time for that was before signing the contract.

Ed

Danahy

Imagine if the HO rec'd other bids in Word format? And the HO was to ever so slightly drop a zero here and there?...

Perhaps editable estimates are considered null imo...

Ed the Roofer

I read about that in another thread recently.

Slightly different version though. I think it was Stone, who had a customer modify the contract terms he e-mailed to him and wanted to proceed with a whole slough load of additional work included.

I don't run into e-mail bids from my competitors.

Ed

Danahy

I remember that thread... was a couple of weeks ago I think?

Mike Finley

What difference does it make if the other contractors who he didn't hire included something or not? Isn't the only thing that makes any difference is the contract he signed with you?

Charles Bagley

If the other guys bids included all that, then why didn't he go with them? That is what I would be asking him?

CB

AirPro

X-2

firemike

I agree with Charles and Mike -

he obviously went with you for some reason, and had he compared contracts he would have known (or probably already knew, just trying to get something for nothing) what was included and what was not.

He signed the contract, he's a big boy and responsible for his actions. Everything is right there in front of him in black and white - no excuses.


If my clients want something emailed to them, I always convert it to a non-editable PDF format so there is no way that it can be modified, plus I keep a copy as well just in case.

__________________
-Mike-

Stone Mountain

About 12 years ago, I built a deck for a young lady who owned her own home. She was a stunner, although of course that was irelevant.

The deck was a wrap-around sort of affair, ground level, about 300 sq. ft. in size, not too much detail.
I gave her a well detailed estimate with the price (I think around $6000 at the time).
We did the work, and I called to collect. Her aswer to my call was "where's the cladding?. I'm not paying til it's done."
Well, the back of the house was an uncovered, unpainted concrete foundation, up to about 8' high. The front of the house was much higher, so you had to walk down a hill at the side of the house from front yard to back yard. The brick line stayed level, so there was quite a bit of exposed concrete at the rear.

The conversation went like this:
Ms. customer, we never talked about cladding?

Yes we did, it's right here on the other guy's estimate.

Ma'am, it's not on my estimate, nor in my notes, nor my costing. We never talked about cladding the entire foundation!

But it's on the other guy's estimate!

It's not on mine, so it's not included.

But the other guy had it.

So why didn't you tell me about it? Why did you go with me?

I guess I forgot to mention it. Besides, you were $1500 cheaper.

That's because I didn't include the cladding.

Well, you should have. The other guy did.

Well, I didn't. Is there anything wrong with what I've done? Can I have my cheque?

When you do the cladding.


In the end, I did the cladding for $1200, and I got paid.

But, as you can see, people don't always compare properly.

Steve

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Tom M

I know when I used to do a lot of roofing I would come across things like wall flashing and 2 sheets of plywood. These were often included in someone elses estimate. My arguement would always be how can I charge you for damage that has not been discovered at this time. Most flashing work is under multilayers of siding. That is time and material repair. Although its common and part of the process to change minor pieces it is and unforeseen till removal. I'm sure Ed hears things like this all the time.

firemike

Hmmmmmmm.......

__________________
-Mike-

dirt diggler

i like the way you spell check (cheque)



idda just poked her ...

firemike

Notice his location?????




Cheque is proper spelling in Canada, as is colour or centre or kilometre...

__________________
-Mike-

George Z

If it isn't in here (contract), it is not getting done.

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DamionR

Hey Guys....

not sure if any of you do bids in MS Word - which get emailed to the customer. If so... do them in Adobe PDF. A PDF file is jsut as widely used.... looks exactly the same... but IS NOT editable. That's the beauty of it. You can add comments and sticky-note type things on it... but no changing the document itself.

Awesome stuff. It would be the only way I'd do a contractual agreement through email.

Ed the Roofer

I don't do e-mail bids, ever. But, for clarification sake, are you sure adobe pdf's are not editable. I thought I read somewhere recently that there was some software that alowed for this safeguard to be bypassed???


Ed

DamionR

Well yes there is - I have one called SolidConverterPDF. But the average Joe is not going to.

Nothign is a certain - and it's why I wouldn't do a "bid" via email. But it does give you a much higher level of protection than a standard, editable Word doc.

Damion

Stone Mountain

I have the same clause in my contract.

George, don't you know by now contracts are written 100% to the benifit of the customer? If a clause is good for the customer, it is 100% enforcible. If it even slightly biased toward the contractor, it means nothing. (at least until you take them to court!)

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www.fenceanddeck.ca

Stone Mountain

Thank you.

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www.fenceanddeck.ca

PressurePros

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Step into the homeowner's shoes. When I call in a professional I expect that person to know their craft well eough to foresee anything that can be upgraded or that should be performed.

That might irk some fo you but is it wrong? Suppose you hire a graphic artist to design a header for your webpage. Do you know exactly how big web headers are on a page. Do you know about leaving a pixel allowance for scroll bars? I don't know that stuff, nor do I care to. That's why I am hiring someone to make suggestions.

For certain, people are going to get confused and I can understand why you guys would want to see other bids. Since that is not always possible, is it best not to use your profesional eye and upsell as many services as you can? I completely understand where the girl mentioned above would have ben miffed (not MILF'd). When the first guy did his evaluation, he had the foresight to include the extra work. To him the project was incomplete without it. At that point, in her mind, all pros would see the same thing and bid accordingly.

Stone is a sharp guy so I am sure it just slipped by but it reiterates how important it is to make sure you and the customer are on the same page before a hammer is ever swung. Nobody wins when a contract has to be pulled out and contested.

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Ken Fenner
Pressure Washing PA
Roof Cleaning Services PA