Now I'm Taking ALL The Gunfire Away From Mike

dirt diggler

shoot me, i deserve it probably

From Day One (even before I knew how to write a contract) have thought it was idiotic to commit (via contract) to a specific DATE OF COMPLETION.

but i was in the shower (where I get most of ideas; if not the toilet)


But my main weakness is completing jobs on time. I'd have all the bragging rights in the world if I could. The only complaint anyone has ever made about me is "he takes a long time"

(to be fair, that same person added "but he's good")

but he's exactly right (I was 6 months on a 3 month job of his)

I had a huge learning curve on his job. BUT --- there were times where I honestly just was not working on his job - or anyone elses. Part laziness (and being tired and having to rest).

Now, I also have spent the past two years learning to be efficient and how to run a business. I'm not there yet - but I'm making progress



What if I did say "Your project will be completed in 90 days"

Afterall, this IS possible. I know WITHOUT weather delays, material delays, and subcontractor delays --- it is MORE than feasible to be done under 60 days


Those 3 things - out of my control


This would read:

Your project is guaranteed to be completed in 90 days or a penalty fee of $100/day, paid to you by Dirt Diggler Construction will be made on each day past the 90th day.

NOW -

Terms and Conditions (in layman's terms - I can't be typin this all day)

1) Any day hindered by WEATHER, SUB DELAY, MATERIAL DELAY is not a debit and does not count toward a "day"

2) Any change in the scope of work, work orders, etc. that require extra TIME, beyond the current scope of work will result in additional time being given. (i.e. - someone wants a flagstone patio --- boom, 90 days becomes 120 days)

there's other terms you could insert here - i do not have time to think about it --- but ya'll get my point





i know, im nuts...

but this is just an idea - have not put this into practice at ALL yet

Gordo

All that typing you did (except the $100 back per/day) is covered in the basic contract requirements in VA.

IMO, you are setting yourself up for HEADACHES with that plan.


Story: I used to work at a successful italian restaurant as a teenager. It was established and had regular clientel. Through a series of lifes circumstances that occurred to the family owners (beyond their control), they were forced to sell the business.

The new owners tried to keep the orginial mojo going, but did not have the fortitude to prevail. The new owners began running a '1990's menu at 1970's price promotion'.

Needless to say, all the original clientel slowly faded away and were replaced by the 'bottom dwellers' that bled the business to death. The bottom dwellers were pickier, complained more, and consumed more employee time.

I think your plan may head you down the wrong direction.

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dirt diggler

not plan; idea

yeah ... "1990s menu at 1970's price" even sounds gross ...

right on Gordo

john elliott

Dirt, you haven't explained to us why you would want to do this. What is the advantage that you would perceive in doing this. Are you losing sales because you don't have a time-penalty clause in your contracts?

John

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Ed the Roofer said "John too, in his crass and blunt demeanor.............."

dirt diggler

OH -- you're right - i forgot that.

No ... I've only had one complaint on the time factor. I'm slow as molasses to begin with -- but everyone seems to kind of take this in stride. Besides the one guy who was seriously ticked off --- I have heard one client actually JOKE about it and then laugh it off

I guess because this is the one weakness I have. I want to be able to tell someone "yeah, 8-12 weeks" and have them know that I genuinely mean that.

I'm going to think more though --- I just gave a pretty superficial answer to something that is perhaps more "deep"

realpurty2

Completion dates are standard in contracts around here. They are enforced heavily on commercial work but homeowners are far more flexible.

Dirt, unless you've had complaints, it sounds more like your trying to motivate yourself to stay on the job and get it done quicker. If that's the case when you really look at it, maybe you could give yourself a bonus for completing it on time? Have you ran the numbers and saw the financial advantages to getting it done quicker? That alone should motivate you, especially if your paying out labor.

I'd be very leary of offering liquidated damages when they aren't required and definately not if I knew I was the reason projects were late.

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SmithBuilt

I have the very same problem no complaints about the work, just too slow. I do not have anything in my contracts as far as penalties.

I'm way too chicken to put 100 per day penalty.

I agree I would like to tell my customer a finish time and it be correct. This would also help me to plan the next job at a certain date.

While $100 per day would definitely be incentive to finish on time maybe something a little less painful may work also.

I can certainly see weather delays being a problem. Material shortage is a concern. I have always considered subs to be my responsibility.

Danahy

I am a one man show, and I paint only so I don't really have to deal with this, but; If I were doing renovating or such that might require something... I might head in the direction of.

(How many sick days in a year?, who knows but I'd give myself atleast 1 day a month, and with that in mind)

'my company' gaurantees that the work won't stop. Deadlines are important to us, however we reserve the right to ensure that the work completed meets a high level of craftsmanship second to none. As required with employment standards each scheduled employee who is deemed to be present during the project is allowed a sick day, to a maximum of 1 per month. 'my company' promises that the work won't stop at any time during the project. Should 'my company' fail to comply, you the home owner are entitled to all labour costs (that should have been paid) deducted from your bill. Exceptions are formentioned sick days, materials delivery problems, week-ends, statutory holidays, weather, pending decisions required between you the home owner & 'my company'.

Or something like that...

bottom line, your butts covered, as long as you have atleast one guy present pushing a broom. As a HO, I'd be more pissed about days when no one shows up, than the deadline not being met.

Worse case scenerio (should atleast 1 guy not show up with valid exception), you would lose a days pay deducted from the bill at the end. Perhaps you worked somewhere else, so it could all balance out in the end anyway...

Mike Finley

Well, I would only start including a time is of the essence, a completion date and penalties in contracts for 3 reasons -

1) It was the only way to get a certain job that I wanted
a) I was comfortable with the completion dates and had comfortable legal verbiage to protect myself from unseen circumstances and subs blowing my schedule.

2) It was the only way I could get any jobs what-so-ever, or if not doing so is seriously effecting the number of jobs I can close.

3) If I was on some sort of gluttonous pain-train where I was in your shoes and wanted to force myself to work quicker and this was the only way. Kind of like hooking a battery up to your privates and giving the switch to somebody to throw every time you reached for a cookie if you were desperate to lose weight.

Other than that I don't like em, don't want em, and haven't needed one so far. Residential customers are usually so jaded by other contractors, that any date you tell them, they automatically pad it by 6 months already. When it comes to contracts my thoughts are weigh them heavily in your favor as the general rule anyways. This wouldn't fall into that.

copusbuilder

Hmmm, When I have a customer ask me about completion dates I tell them I don't know. Will the faucets be here on time? Will you make your selections promptly? Are you in a hurry?
I explain I will have a crew working consistantly and they will be taking the time to do the job right. I do not and never have worked to a time table.
I explain it is in my best interest to have the job completed as soon as possible but will not rush it to meet a schedule.
I have never had a problem with doing this but then again I don't work for a-holes

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Teetorbilt

I have heard the same thing for 40+ yrs., starting with my Dad.

Quality takes time. Most of my jobs exit without a punch list. Why? Because we take the time to do everything right the FIRST time.

Do it right or do it over, your choice.

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Gordo

The good clients are looking for 'ballpark' time frames....not absolute dates.

Copus....can you pass the jug o shine?

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dougchips

Dirt, it sounds like you need a self help book more than you need a change in your contract. I am able to delegate most of my tasks with the exception of getting dressed and wiping my asss. I do this because certain tasks need to get done and I am to lazy to do them. If you can not part with the money to delegate your tasks, you will need to have the discipline to deal with them yourself. I gave one of my subs a 1-2 month unpaid vacation last year so he could read some books on how to manage his life and get his "stuff" in order. I wish I knew the books that he got because he came back as a real ace.

BTW, friendly advice, not meant any other way.

DamionR

I see nothing wrong with the idea, thought I don't see a need to pay people if you do not get it done on time. If anything, they may worry you'll slop through the work just to meet a deadline. In reality, how many of your clients are going to remember that point 3 months from now? Few I would assume.

On a clients contract, the first line in the wording says that the job will "commence within ___ days, and be completed within ___ days.".

The salesguy fills in the blanks (they use 3 days and 120 days as a standard).

It also says that these dates are barring outside conditions beyond the companies control - which covers your bad weather days, etc.

In reality Dirt, If you find yourself being lazy from time to time, count that into your time for the job. Want to see a customer super excited? Complete a 90 day job in 85 days. Want to see them irritated? Take an extra 90 to do it.

Damion

dirt diggler

Nets - i like the way you think - more and more you talk, i like it


This is a great idea

I work enough to justify getting lazy once in awhile. Sometimes I can't help it --- I just get completely drained.

I'm also going to start subbing out a couple labor intensive tasks I do so that I am not so wiped out all the time


you're right though - i never count on "being tired" when doing my estimates or planning the job.


I'm also going into this year a lot more organized & systematic ... so this should eliminate the tiredness (i shouldn't say laziness ... cuz i work too hard to call myself lazy)

great idea

dirt diggler

this is true too ...

dirt diggler

i think this is a great analogy to this



For what it's worth, ive never done this (liquidated damages -- not the nut shocker )

in fact, I lost a really neat job last year cuz I refused to give a date. My gut told me they were up to something


Dirt's final decision/conclusion: glad to promote some good discussion ... but as long as I'm doing residential --- i will stay away from this


(and im gonna start charging for those days I wanna stay home and watch reruns of Gunsmoke )

DamionR

Hey everyone needs a lazy day - I had one yesterday about midday... went out for a drive... talked to my parents for a bit on the phone... played with the dog... jsut screwed off. You have to recharge sometimes.

The good news is I won my weekly poker game I'm in - now playing ina 8 person final table for $5K - hoo rah

Pearce Services

"Pizza delivered in 30 minutes or its free"..........Many lawsuits came out of that promotion. And I always hoped they would be late so I could get a freebie.

I wonder how many homeowners would set back and let you hang yourself so they can get a healthy discount. The whole time you could be thinking "wow these people are really cool, haven't been there for a week and a half, and they never even called to complain"

The pizza delivery guy learned that he could drive like an idiot to meet his deadline. The promotion is long gone, but they still drive like idiots. What bad habits could you learn from this?

copusbuilder

Not passing it Gordo The only way I can make sense of any of this is to drink a s-load. Now I gotta go back to Mikes thread and see if it makes any more sense

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