Need Help Writing Contract

Hoof Hearted

Oklabama

Hoof Hearted

originally posted by OGStilts:
[quote=OGStilts;742466]

A contract is a tool of the trade so if you are willing to cut corners with your contract then where else are you likely to cut corners....hmmm

reply: Hey cutie, I noticed all the web links at the bottom of your posts so I decided to check out your North Shore's Bathrooms page.

Here is your opening statement:

Wheather you are considering a simple cosmetic spruce up to a complete renovation of your existing bathroom, we will help guide you thru the entire bathroom remodeling process from design to material selections to construction and completion so that you stay on schedule and within budget.

This is a run on sentence with both spelling and grammar errors.

This is how I might word it, if I were a true professional such as yourself:

Whether you are considering a simple cosmetic makeover, or a complete renovation of your existing bathroom, let us guide you through the entire bathroom remodeling process from start to finish. Take advantage of our expertise in all phases of bathroom remodeling. Our services include, but are not limited to: design, material selection, construction, and the ability to deliver a finished product on time and within budget.


I hope for your clients sake that:
A. you are more meticulous with your hammer and nails than you are with your words
and B. that those are actually pictures of bathrooms that YOU remodeled and not just some pics cut and pasted from the web.

In regards to you who are bothered by me calling myself a GC, my sincere apologies, for not having the option to add in the prelude "soon to be".

you see, now, especially with the help and advice that some of you chose to provide, instead of taking to the opportunity to dish out insults, I have landed a job "general contracting" the reconstruction of a multi-million dollar home.

and like you, Husqypro, I WAS too broke to pay an attorney to write my contracts. But after reviewing numerous contracts (some provided by you, good persons) along with the writing contracts course I had taken in college, I am confident that MY contracts are perfectly legal and binding.

Thanks again to those of you who decided to be helpful. I couldn't have done it without you.

I may not know everything, but I do know life's treating me pretty darn good right about now

OGStilts

Thanks for the grammar lesson and visiting my site. I look forward to serving your former clients.

__________________

Chicago Home Remodeling-
Chicago Luxury Builder- Basement Remodeling- Kitchen Remodeling-Chicago Bath Remodeling

Hoof Hearted

just sayin, seemed a little suspicous that your "remodels" didn't have any before pics. Best of luck to ya.

cyezza

Here is mine, seems to work when I use it:

"We hereby propose to furnish labor and materials, complete in accordance with the above specifications with payment made as follows:"
""
"All material is guaranteed to be as specified. All work to be completed in a workmanlike manner according to standard practices. Any alteration or deviation from the above specifications involving extra costs will be executed only upon written orders, and will become an extra charge over and above the estimate."
""
"ACCEPTANCE OF PROPOSAL"
""
"The above prices, specifications and conditions are hereby accepted. You are authorized to do the work as specified. Payments will be made as outlined above."
""
"ACCEPTED:"
""
"Customer Signature:"
""
"Date:"

bconley

[quote]I think it should be simple as I don't want to scare customers away with too many BIG words they cant understand.

Most of the home owners you are going to run across aren't in the position of being able to hire you, because they are stupid.

Bill

ARI001

If you are soon to be a G.C. that means you are not currently a G.C. That also means you have no legal contract for a multi- million dollar house reno or rebuild. If you can not afford to hire an attorney to write a contract for you, how in the hell do you expect to rebuild a multi-million dollar home for somebody. If you can't afford the lawyer how are you going to afford the permits, insurance, bonds, deposits to subs, materials, etc? Your contract is not legally binding if you entered into it without having a license and your state requires one. Why don't you take some time and look up some of the court rulings on that and letting your license lapse while working on a on going job. Your contract is not valid if you knowingly entered into an agreement that was not legal or with intent to knowingly break the law. The posts in this thread could be used in court so keep that in mind.

DavidC

So many times on these forums it is advised to sell on the merits of your own strengths without putting down the competition. Then a newbie comes along and asks for help improving his lot and deemed unworthy by asking. What's it going to be? Can we stand on our strengths or do we need the crutch of supposed deficiency to look good?

Hoof, I asked my attorney to write a plain language contract that meets all the State requirements. I also did some research and suggested a few clauses I thought should be included. The 2 of us worked out what it should say and the attorney put the words together properly. Total cost, $150 + a few hours of my time.

Laws are different in different states and localities, contractors shouldn't give legal advise. 2 things I've learned along the way. Invest in an attorney, the first visit is usually free and will give you an idea of the cost for you.

Good Luck
Dave

__________________
www.CookContractingLLC.com

OGStilts

It is also required that they be a construction professional to post on this site. So are we to believe that someone who asks about some thingy that is called a change order is a pro? Then he gets advised to hire a lawyer and instead of accepting this advice, he attacks this person by basically telling them they are too stupid to write their own contracts and that they have an attitude problem.

This post starts off about writing a contract for 600sf of flooring and suddenly this guy is now a GC for a multi-million dollar home. And yet it is my integrity that gets questioned around here. Like I have said in the past, there are newbies that come with their hat in hand and introduce themselves properly and pose questions in a proper manner and accept the responses they get. Then there are [edited out rules violations] like this, who come in here with a chip on there shoulder, who get offended by the answers they get, and really show their true colors. Which type of contributors do you want around here?

I understand the recent movement to defend newbies but really, are you going to draw a line in the sand with this guy? I would rather help guys who don't hide behind an online identity. His profile isn't even 50% filled out, his company name is bogus, and he doesn't even tell us where he is located. Before going around and defending these guys, ask yourself, why is he hiding so much information from us.

__________________

Chicago Home Remodeling-
Chicago Luxury Builder- Basement Remodeling- Kitchen Remodeling-Chicago Bath Remodeling

DavidC

There is no line to draw in the sand. I'm not smart enough to read a short post and decide exactly where someone fits in the food chain. If I offer advice and get attacked for it I simply stop responding. I choose not to play.

If I read a post and think there is a HO or other impostor posing as a contractor, I choose not to play.

Should I break my own rule the result is I feel like the heel.

If I could have posted 20 years ago I'm sure some would have called me a hack and there would probably been at least a hint of truth to it. I wasn't born at the top of my game and did require some help to reach a point of competency. There is not a single task that I can or do perform today that I did not do for the first time at some point.

The best lesson in life is taught in kindergarten; Play nice with others, use your manners, take a nap when necessary.

Good Luck
Dave

__________________
www.CookContractingLLC.com

OGStilts

I do understand your point. I guess you are just a better man than me, I have no patience for guys like this, and don't always have the restraint to not respond when they attack a valid response.

__________________

Chicago Home Remodeling-
Chicago Luxury Builder- Basement Remodeling- Kitchen Remodeling-Chicago Bath Remodeling

Hoof Hearted

hang on a sec...Lord, help me, but this is actually becoming joyful.

Your contract is not legally binding if you entered into it without having a license and your state requires one.

Can you even tell me what state I’m in?
What makes you say I don’t have a license?
I do, although in my location it’s not required.
　
If you can't afford the lawyer how are you going to afford the permits, insurance, bonds, deposits to subs, materials, etc?

Again, my apologies for not wording my situation better. When I said I was too broke to hire an attorney to write my (multiple) contracts, what I meant to say was, I’d rather put that money towards my son’s dentistry.

Permits are necessary, but only in certain instances and usually for less than $100 which is doable.

Insurance was a bit of a sting, but it’s also necessary so I took it like a man.

As far as bonds go, they are pleasurable tools in my sex life and quite affordable, but that’s between my wife and I.

Deposits to subs are distributed from the deposits required, as specified in the original contracts, from the homeowner to me. (you takin’ notes?) In other words, the owner and I make an agreement in writing that states that I, the general contractor, will be paid X amount of dollars before work is commenced. This X amount of dollars should be enough to cover startup fees to subs, purchase materials, as well as putting some gas in your tank to get you back and forth to the job until your next payment is scheduled.

Your contract is not valid if you knowingly entered into an agreement that was not legal or with intent to knowingly break the law. The posts in this thread could be used in court so keep that in mind.

I may have broken a few laws in my day, but becoming a general contractor isn’t one of them. Even if I was acting illegally, how could the court of law use this thread if I haven’t disclosed my identity or my location to this forum or website? If you’re wondering why I chose not to(OGStilts), it’s because I don’t need some wanna-be-internet-badass trying to prove what an idiot they are by putting explosives in my mailbox.

I haven’t figured out how to upload documents onto this thread but when and if I do, I’d be happy to show you some of the contracts I have come up with. At which point (or at any point for that matter)I would further appreciate any input or advice from you good persons willing to help.

As for the rest of you girls who have there panties in a bunch about me being a GC, all I can say is(in the words of my homeboy, Master P), “Don’t hate the player, baby…Hate the game.”

What I see with you moan-n- groaners is comparable to what we like to call, back home in Oklabama, a “pecking party”.

If you aren’t familiar with what a pecking party is, it goes like this:

A bunch of chickens get together, and do what chickens do, which is a whole lot of bak-bak-bak and very little actual feeding.

Soon one chicken spots another chicken showing weakness of some sort, and decides to give him a peck.

A little blood oozes from the peck wound.

Others see it and decide to give a peck as well.

Pretty soon the weak chicken has a gaping wound, and being out numbered, is eventually pecked to death.

Let me just say, I will certainly die someday, but the cause won’t be from the likes of any of you peckers.

By the way, Can anyone tell me how to put other people's quotes in those fancy light blue boxes? thanks in advance.

One more thing. It truly is amazing how much you can learn in a short amount of time if you just apply yourself and accept help from others. A big THANKS again to those of you who choose to help.

Hoof Hearted

just wanted to give a special thanks to you, OG, for the good chuckle...i need that sometimes.

DavidC

I'll choose not to play.

Good Luck
Dave

__________________
www.CookContractingLLC.com

ARI001

You are back pedaling so much it's not even funny. You are not a licensed GC and have no business posting on this site. I find it highly amusing you think you can BS guys on here that are legit when you don't have the faintest idea about this business. Do you think anybody here buys for a second that you went from needing help on writing a contract for 600 sf of flooring to a multi million dollar "rebuild". I think you need to head over to the DIY site as you are obviously a homeowner.

OGStilts

How does that saying going....something like:

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you are an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt."

Like I stated before, this guy is clearly not a construction professional, and instead of continuing to play this game (thanks Dave) with a wanna be, I hope the mods will come along soon and ban this guy already.



Oh by the way Mr Spelling Police....I think you spelled internet wrong

__________________

Chicago Home Remodeling-
Chicago Luxury Builder- Basement Remodeling- Kitchen Remodeling-Chicago Bath Remodeling

Double-A

OK folks, I think we've all carried this a bit far, except those of you that were following the rules and being professional about all this.

To those that were not, please take a moment to re-read our posting rules.

Professionalism and respect for others on this site is required, not requested. If you can't follow the rules, don't post. If you break the rules, we're gonna do something about it. Its really quite simple.

To report a post please use the button. Tell us why you're reporting the post and give us some time to respond.

CT is a great site because we cooperate. Conflict for the sake of conflict is not cooperation. And since we're all adults and professionals here, I don't think its unreasonable to ask everyone to act that way.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Double-A

I just spent 15 minutes of my life I'm never gonna get back editing this silliness. Now, I'm not complaining as much as saying, this is not going to be tolerated.

Be nice or go home.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Hoof Hearted

My bad Doub,
My apologies to anyone else I may have disrespected. I guess I just feel like nobody’s ever heard of a beginning general contractor before. You know, someone like me who just dove in the deep end just as I’ve always done in life. The result is you either sink or you swim. So far I’m still treading water just fine.

I’ve been in the construction business for more than 18 yrs, and I’ve made other people a lot of money over much of that time. I’ve done just about every thing to a house you can do except burn one down. But I’ve certainly taken part in quite a few teardowns and rebuilds, including two of my own, in which I “played” general contractor quite successfully and was able to make a few real dollars and a quite a few more in current equity.

I’ve designed and built add-ons, waterproofed basements, roofs, siding, did doors and windows for about two years, notched and chinked cabins, rewired complete houses, designed plumbing systems, problem solved, all phases of bathrooms and kitchens, wraparound porches, walk-in showers, researched, hired and fired, jacked up houses to replace rotten sill plates, landscape, retaining walls, disassembled antique barns for furniture and other uses, hardwood floors of all types, laminate too, dug, mortared and lined in-ground pools, sidewalks, decks, chimneys, operated back-ho’s and many other excavation machinery, tell me I can’t do something and you just all but sealed the deal on me getting it done right the first time.

Of course I’ve made my share of mistakes along the way but I never have grown tired or bored with the next challenge.

This brings me to my next point. ARI, when I try to apologize for not choosing my words better and then rewording it so that you might better understand me, you say I’m “back pedaling”. Should I not try to correct my mistakes? My grandfather who was a mason and a commercial artist, told me that “ALL builders make mistakes. Only the good ones know how to fix them.” And at the end of the day, does it really matter to you whether or not I’m a general contractor?

Bottom line is I’ve gotten a lot of the advice I’ve needed and would really appreciate any more knowledge that you might be willing to share, just don’t go thinking you can’t learn something from me as well.

So here’s the lowdown.

I was propositioned(by way of referral) to redo a tile floor for a nice couple who just so happen to live in a really nice home. The person who gave me the referral hired me to general contract the reconstruction of her second home which was mostly destroyed by the floods last summer. The reason she hired me to general contract is she was a friend and co-worker of my wife and knew that I was near completion of my own rehab and that I would soon be available.

She had three bids come in from other builders all between 50 and 70 k. I came in at 28 k and gave her higher end finishes than any of the previous three promised her in their contracts.

But before I did, I acquired insurance and my “General Contracting” license, although as I said earlier, it’s NOT required in my locale. I obtained all the proper permits, always met and often exceeded code. I stayed on time and in budget and the homeowner and I are good friends to this day.

I’m not trying to make a killing, I’m trying to make a living while I continue building my portfolio.

So…back to the tile floor I was asked to take a look at. When I arrived at the house, a quite large and expensive mansion, located in a quite prestigious neighborhood, I showed the homeowners my portfolio, which has quite a few high-end finishes involved. When they saw what I could do and listened to what I had to say, they realized they had found just the right guy to remodel their 5 bedroom, 5 bath house. The few things they had done to it recently turned out to be a nightmare because of the hacks who came in and gouged their pocketbooks and butchered their house.

Now, granted, I was poopin’ bricks, for I had never worked on a property of this caliber, although it wasn’t the work that scared me, it was the potential lawyer bills. You see, in the past, I either worked for other contractors, or I “played” general contractor and successfully completed a lot of jobs on little more than a hand shake and a some scribbles spelling out the terms on a statement pad. As I was researching contract clauses, I came across your website and I signed up.

I’m thankful I did, although, now I’m probably spending more time trying to prove my worthiness than I am actually absorbing the information I need to further my growth as a general contractor.

And Dave, I understand you were trying to stick up for me with your enlightened words, and I’m sorry if you felt like I had disrespected you in any way. That was not my attention.

I called my former custody lawyer yesterday and he had me fax his office what I had came up with and his firm did indeed make a few minor changes to the wording, and added a clause or two along with removing a couple at no charge.

I’m confident these contracts are both binding and fair to all parties involved, including, the homeowner, the sub contractors, and most importantly, to myself, the GC.

Perhaps my biggest safety net is that instead of writing a single contract for all the work, I’ve meticulously broken each project into mini projects, spelling out exactly what is to be done, and exactly what materials will be needed. If any thing goes wrong, we have a small dispute instead of a BIG one and the price of the contract isn’t worth taking to small claims court.

If someone could tell me how to upload docs to this thread, I’d be glad to let you all see them. Perhaps they could be further improved upon or may even turn out to be useful to someone viewing this thread.

CA, you stated in a post that you used a clause which clearly spelled out the terms for “unforeseen conditions”. Would you mind posting that clause so that we might better have an understanding for it?
　
Again, my apologies for being so ignorant and not being more humble in my approach to learning. And again, THANK YOU for all the help you given me.

As you read this thread and you think of me, I want you to really ask yourself- “Who farted?”

Hoof Hearted-

CScalf

I was once a wet behind the ear GC myself, and I am a 3rd generation contractor, went out on my own, because the old man and I can't get along.

It's not easy, if it were then everyone would do it. There are basic things though that one should know before attempting to become something. It doesn't matter what profession it is, if I were to become say, a doctor, would I just jump right in, waste money and effort, going to school, then halfway through say "I don't want to be a general practitioner, but instead a surgeon"? not likely.

So take this advice as a "shiity response" or as something that could be beneficial.


Get a game plan set up, some call it a business plan, but I like game plan, sounds more fun. Make sure you have everything all set up, of course you will still change things a million times, we all have or will or still are, I change things every day, find a better or faster way of doing something, look up general contracting forms on google or something.

Take it from some of us here, that have fallen off the wagon a time or two so to speak. If you have a good "system" in place before you begin your endevour, it will be much easier, I had no game plan, I have some paper, pens/pencils, and receipt books when I first started, hell I didn't even use contracts, but I was an ant amongst giants, then as the business "grew up" so did I. I have seen highs and lows, until the last year or so mostly lows, because I didn't have a good "system" to run my business.

If you think that you have gotten a good verbal lashing on this thread, think again, I broke the number one rule of construction this year by not keeping in contact with customers and basically posted a thread asking for advice and masking the problem that was my fault, I got a good "stoning" as it was put, and it helped a lot to get a good boot in the ass from the guys, sometimes if things are put bluntly to you, it really sinks in and you think about the bigger picture.

anyway, I have no idea where I am going with this, or what I originally started out to say, as a matter of fact I am sure this is so up'd that I am not even going to proof it, for fear that I will slap myself for rambling about a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense and changes every other sentance (I tend to do that).


So my final words on this is, think, research, and good luck

__________________
"Your problem does not constitute an emergency on my part"