Marketing Pains

Bowsherb

The people from yellowpages call me at least once every two weeks selling me on how great there book is. If someone out there is using this book, let me know how it is working. I understand geographics plays a roll but if I could get some feed back it would be appreciated. Or just a flavor of what has been effective for some of you.

thanks,

B.Bowsher

kevjob

remodeling no, service calls maybe don't waste your money on them.

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Kevin
Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado
Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling
Kitchen Remodeling Denver

heartoftexas

we spent 6,000 ....what a waste . Word of mouth is our best source and it's free!

Bowsherb

Thanks for the reply it was extremely helpfull

Cole

I agree, run dont walk away from yellow pages.

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curapa

I would say it depends on the field of work your in. I have had alot of luck with them for my fence business. My buddy has a remodeling company and the book didn't work for him.

mark the coach

Years ago, yellow pages worked pretty well for our company. But after 2004, the return on investment was pitiful for remodeling. We ran a remodeling and a roofing company with separate adds. The yellow page adds worked only for roofing.
Fast forward to today and the majority of contractors in remodeling are not buying yellow page adds. They are only keeping the line listing. Homeowners are not going to the yellow pages for remodeling. Their first choice is referral through word of mouth. This can be from people they know, neighbors, or signs on jobs in their neighborhood.
If they can't find someone from the referral networks then they go on-line. If you don't have a website that is on the first page after a search they won't find you.
Many contractors are tapping their existing customer base with letters and newsletters minimum 4 times a year.
Radius mailings around ongoing jobs seem to work for many. Mail one at start of job, one at middle and one at end.
Many contractors are using strategic alliances among the vendors and sub trades.
Another major generator of leads are home shows. Find the right show, plan it well and follow up on your leads right away.


If I think of anything else I'll let you know.

mark the coach

www.thecontractorcoachingpartnership.com

threaderman

Their ads work for me doing repair type of work,but AT&T themselves are cheats .
They won't guarantee you'll always be in the same spot,or even close,so there is no way of knowing what kind of exposure your ad will get.
I tripled my ad with them to 10,000 this year,last year I was on page 1,this year I wound up on page 6 ,not because of other business listings but because AT&T took a half page for their own advertising and quite a few of us were relocated.I never would have spent so much with them had I known my placement would change.They really put a screw in things for me ,I deplore them and their sales people.

Screw at&t,screw at&t,screw at&t ,screw at&t,screw at&t,screw at&t

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Joe ---International Code Council Member

Your plumbing & gas specialist proudly serving Oklahoma City OK, Moore, Warr-acres, Norman, Midwest City, Edmond, Bethany, Forest Park

SethHoldren

How big is your market? That matters.

Also, in construction, as a very general rule of thumb, the smaller the projects you generally do, the better the results. So, big remodeling companies don't usually get much from the YP.

Also, I don't believe in large ads for most businesses. Get the small one if you must go YP. It's really difficult to justify those astronomical rates for the big ads.

Here's an interesting tidbit though. Did you know YP ads get much higher response rates if you create some sort of offer like a free report?

For example, we have a local foundation company here in town and they offer a free report entitled "12 Early Warning Signs of Foundation Failure."

You want to do something like that, so you stand out. Don't listen to the YP rep about ad design. They will tell you to look at the other ads and make yours like them. Total rubbish. They don't care whether you get results or not. They just want you to buy a huge ad.

Read "Tested Advertising Methods." It's been proven time and again that an offer and a call to action out-pulls the normal Name/Tagline/Number crap. I mean we're talking like 30x the response, in some cases more.

Oh yeah, and you'll never know unless you track results. Which simply means ask when they call, and write it down.

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BuilderOne

WOW, that is the most inexperienced information I have ever heard. I know your heart is in the right place, but you are very far off on this

Yellow Pages are like the internet. If you are in the top three, you will generate the most business from yellow page shoppers. I have bought yellow pages for 20 years. When I am in the top three, My sales almost double. It goes with any other format, market( buy ) what you can afford.
Larger ads, color will generate a higher return per lead 75% of the time over smaller ads. You really have to be careful who you listen to! I'll take experience over GUESSING anyday.


from a large remodeler

SethHoldren

Yikes, do you work for the Yellow Pages?

Don't get me wrong, the research shows yellow pages can still get results. According to research I've seen, the numbers are down quite a bit, especially in the last couple of years. But they still pull results, it's very true. And there could be some good opportunities there since so many are abandoning YP for the internet.

I don't doubt your success with YP. Like I said, general rule of thumb. There are definitely single cases of huge success.

That's great that you get such good results. You are a large remodeler you said, right? Do you do very large projects, or lots of small ones?

With your ads in the past that have achieved awesome results, do you have any advice for good ad design? What have you found that works well?

Your opinion comes off strong (and personal) but lets stick to helping folks, shall we? We all have different levels of experience and expertise.

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BuilderOne

all numbers are down quite a bit...right?

We do mainly large projects, but that isn't really the point I was making. It is really about the branding as a whole and YP is part of that. There is a certain demographic that only looks at YP vs. the internet. That may be growing smaller, and so it the price of the YP, as it is negotiable....you just have to try.

My opinion wasn't personal, sorry you took it that way. Our business uses a marketing agency and does plenty of research. I have worked with them on the business for years. Actually most of what we found works, contradicts what you have " implied" quite a bit.
Larger ads perform better than small
color ads perform better than black and white
YP performs better in top 3 spots and price is negotiable.
Call to action is a very good idea, branding is better in long standing printed pieces with a long shelf life( YP, Magazines, Business cards )

Too mention a few........sorry, but the reason it may come across personal is I feel you may be trying to help people, but come across as inexperienced in the marketing aspect.

SethHoldren

Thanks for sharing your experience. The digs at me are getting boring. I love you too.

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Michael Olding

You all make some valid points regarding the YP and for some markets they still dominate but the reality is that the YP market is shrinking and for the bulk of contractors without the knowledge or savvy in determining a profitable price to pay (which is probably most of us) for YP advertising it can be a daunting task and a loosing proposition.

It's one of the few areas of space purchasing where I never felt like I was getting the 'straight scoop' from the seller. Every year there were to many changes, offerings, additional books, release dates... too much confusion (intentional I think) with prices always going up, up, up.

However if your demographic is 50 - 55+ then I would definitely be there as this group will continue to use the YP, they still read the newspaper and are slow to adopt to the internet though it is coming.

Once the newspapers stop printing they will be forced to convert to the web and will probably abondon the YP quickly once they find the information that is available to them online. Just a guess though.

Bottom line... as with all marketing... assume a worst, never listen to the 'galmour' numbers the sales person gives you and then hold their feet to the fire! Make them squirm, make them dance and make them give you the absolute best rate for the advertsing space you're looking to buy.

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Masonry repair expert - structural, restorations, tuck pointing, rebuilding, staining etc.

SethHoldren

Hey Michael. Good to have you here. I recognized you from that "other" forum. (CWB).

Your yellow page comments are dead on, especially concerning how to deal with the YP salespeople. Good post.

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rbsremodeling

Yp aren't worth the paper they are printed on

Seth and Michael are did on. Especially two points your market is older and less likely to go online and for Service type industries.

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SalesMGR1011

As someone who spends about $2000 a month between multiple company books and region I have found a few things. Depending on the category and how many in that category determines what you should do. If there is only a few people aunder a category there is no need to over spend. If it is a category where there are a ton of people if your buying a small add or line listing its a waste you won't be called only by people already searching you out by name, which is where a white pages listing would be just fine. I have played with our ads and found this year I changed our roofing ad to a large roofing ad full color with a metered phone number, I spent $580 a month for it but have sold over $40000 of work directly off of that metered phone line that is only in our Dex Phone book. Since Aug 1st it has generate approximately 50 calls. I would be glad to forward anyone the reporting if they would like to see it.

fatdanny

anyone still use yellowpages? i mean, come on, when you look for something, you usually just start searching on google.

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Los Angeles House Foundation Repair for over 15 years.

True North

Yellow Pages were a complete waste of $1,200 to me. I got two calls in a year, one from a real estate agent looking to fix up her own rental, and another from a generic tire-kicker. I didn't get either job.

Bowsherb

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the good debate. I think I will not go w/ YP. and shift my marketing aproach to one that is concentrated on-line. I believe this is where we are heading. For the older folks stuck doing business like this is the 1980's again, I'll wait for them to catch up and find me on-line.

Good posts,

Brad B.