Lack Of Details In Compeititors Proposals...

ruskent

I was out last night trying to sell a 28.5k 1100 sq ft paver patio, with a built in grill, pillars, and a firepit.

I am up against 3 other guys on this. 1 never even gave a written proposal. Then the other 2 gave a price for the entire job with nothing broken down and no details.

My proposal had the patio, built in grill, pillars, electic, fire pit and patio all line itemized with prices for each.

I was the only one that even gave a model # for the grill and gave a spec sheet on the unit. No one mentioned how they were going to deal with the propane line, and no one mentioned anything about running electrical out to the pillars that are suppose to have lights in them.


Seems like people like to be real vague with their proposals.

Do you guys run into stuff like this?

Oh yea, ofcourse i am higher then the other guys.

mdshunk

All the time. If you can be vague, and still get enough work, why be detailed?

fci

mdshunk, you said it right. There are several, lots of contractors/wanna be contractors out there who don't take the time to write a detailed estimate and still get a fair share of work. I prefer to write a detailed estimate so nothing gets misunderstood. I'll bet that the vague estimators get their butts chewed out more than they are willing to admit. IMO

JamesNLA

I actually have gotten jobs because my proposals were more detailed. Than during the sit down, I go into detail about the job and what will be completed, however I have learned, it's best to stay away from the technical details. This is a fairly easy problem to get around, and is pretty simple to use it to your advantage. Simplist example, is when (in this case) they install the KMART special grill, and it either sucks or breaks there is no recourse for the home owner, no protection for them. Selling them on the value of how their dollar will be better spent with you is key. If you don't, than they are the "I just want t6he cheapest price" kind of people, and I don't care for that clientel. High end customers get high end work, with high end products, but they also get to pay a high end price.

Tscarborough

Are there detailed plans or specifications, or did it consist of a napkin drawing and the HO saying, " I want this here, and this over here". If that is the case, then a detailed proposal is, IMO, required, just to cover your own ass. No written proposal, just a price screams jack-leg to me, no matter which side of the fence I look at it from.

AtlanticWBConst

Yes, we too have gotten many jobs because of the extra effort made to detail our Proposals and even our contracts. Details def. set you apart from the hacks. It's one of those things that can make you succesful as a company. Like finished carpentry... "it's the little details that count"...

Protection and profit:
Details have gotten us so much extra in terms of payment. When a customer or HO makes a request, we can show very clearly that it was not included in the original contract and that we can do it at an additional charge...
And obviously it protects us from 'swallowing' extra charges because we didn't lay out little details, materials to be used, etc...etc....

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AtlanticWBConst

Absolutely....

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Bone Saw

Im' with shunk on this, My scope of work contains obtaining permits, build deck (see drawings)and final cleanup, thats it, they never get the drawings till I get the job. Everything is outlined in the drawing layouts.

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AtlanticWBConst

I also agree with this point as well. Details about 'certain' matters should be included, but the actual spec details about design and so on should not be included.

I have gone on estimates and been shown 'drawings' made by another construction company.....


....NO WAY....should that should be the case with any savy business owner....

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mdshunk

EXACTLY!

In the case of the OP, why in the world would you feel compelled to itemize each task? They're hiring you for a "job", not 10 little jobs. Itemizing steps is fine, as that's part of building value, but any more breakdown is nuts.

AtlanticWBConst

Completely hit the nail on the head....(so to speak)

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michael084

I usually give detailed specifications, but never do I give any of the drawings that I spend hours on. And never ever do I give a cost breakdown item by item, that is a great way for the customer to go to their buddy the drywall guy who has a buddy who is an amateur roofer and so on. Then he can show them each price which of course they can beat since they have no insurance, overhead or advertising. If they ask for a detailed breakdown, I tell them why not. I consider it proprietary information.

ruskent

So your saying if you were pricing out my job you would of just giving them 1 price, and not broken it up by each item?

I just submited a 255k proposal yesterday. If i did not break it down by each item (33 items total) the people would of thought it was out of my mind.


Maybe i am wrong...

Tscarborough

If there are detailed specifications and drawings, you can give them a one line proposal: This job will cost this much, per the specifications, as drawn.

If not, then you are, in fact, developing the detailed specifications and drawings, and you should be paid for that, in advance, and should not give that information away.

concretemasonry

Tell them all of the good things you are including to sell the job, but just give one number plus a completion date based on a start date you have selected.

Do not fall into the trap of going into line item pricing. If you do, he can talk to the cheap guy since he already has the details and can change the scope without you knowing it. - Them he will throw a low price back at you.

When he comes back with a low priced competitors proposal, request the line items and details, so you can then go and sell what you want.

If you know the competition, you can react accordingly, but at least you will be face-to-face.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

POOLMANinCT

fantastic concretemasonry,

reverse engineering the low-bid

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SuperiorBuilt

A detail proposal show your customer you care about the work you do. It show you are willing to invest the time before the job start to make it go smoothly. If a HO has been burned in the past , he/she is looking for the detailed contractor. This also justifies your price over a lowball contractor (who usually gives a HO a number on the back of a business card)

ultimatetouch

I wouldnt brake it down either. It just gives them ammo to shop out each detail of the work.
I would put it in a form where they know what they are agreeing to that looks professional, more along the lines of a letter of agreement.

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Ultimatetouch
Illinois Remodeling Company, Kitchen Remodeling Chicago, Room Additions Illinois

AtlanticWBConst

Basically, proposals are all 'relative' to the size and scope of a project.

What kinds of details need to be included or not included will be somewhat dictated by the job specifics....

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GregS

I just recently got screwed by the builder I am working for. I do all their low-voltage stuff and they wanted a model home done up.

My standard practice for all the houses I do for them is to do up a nice floor plan in Visio and then a spreadsheet detailing all source/destinations for each cable and cost to run.

I submitted that to them expecting some revisions to fit a budget. Turns out they just took it and faxed it over to my competition to get them to bid on it. When their bid came in, they handed it to me with all their prices removed and said "do it again" denying that they had sent them any of my work.

Anyways, my lesson learned is, sending out all your details is just going to get you screwed.

If you do need to present details, do it in person and don't let them keep any detailed documents until they sign for the work.