Insurance Storm Work, Documenting The Undocumented Storm...What Do You Use For Proof

Ed the Roofer

Sort of carrying on from another thread, but Build Pinnacle mentioned getting a mans repair work done for regardless that the insurance company did not have documentation about any recent storm damage in the area where that customer lived.

So, copy/paste time:

Now, what did you use to prove the storm?

I get some of these adjuster weanies that have a reported storm in the neighboring town, which may only be 1 block away, but sine the reported starm data base did not list that specific town, they attempt to logically conclude, in their tiny little minds, that the storm stopped at the boudry.

I get them to accept it usually, but only after much arm twisting.

How do you go about it? I know of most, if not all of the weather sources already, but don't pay for hail-trax or hail-swath.

As a matter of fact, that would make an interesting topic on it's own merit, don't you agree?

Ed

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neolitic

Weatherunderground has lots
of reporting stations in any given area
and I think you can get history
for all of them.

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Astrix

I don't deal directly with claims, but my sideline involvement over the years has taught me that getting storm damage covered does not require corroboration of the local weather department as to whether they logged a storm or not.

The proof is in the damage. The adjuster will look at the shingles and should be able to determine if it was sudden accidental damage to newer shingles (covered claim) vs. ongoing wear & tear damage to old shingles at the end of their life span (not covered).

If the client has an "all risks" policy, their policy will cover them for all risks, except for ..... and then there is a list of exclusions. The exclusions are pretty much common sense; i.e. arson, wear & tear, faulty construction, vermin & insects, terrorism (separate coverage through federal government), etc. If there is no obvious proof that any of those excluded perils were the cause of the damage, then the insurance company will pay.

So, it doesn't really doesn't matter if there is proof of a storm or not, as long as there is no proof of bats or terrorists.

RidgeWalker

Exactly, but I have seen insurance company's pay for old worn out roofs because the hail caused them to be even more damaged. But I think that's more an exception then a rule of thumb.

Also experienced inspectors, adjuster or roofer know how to tell if hail damage is old or new which can determine if the claim should or should not be paid.

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buildpinnacle

I am not certain if I actually have a 'how to'. Most of the roofers on here who deal with hail damage often probably already know this stuff, but recognizing old hail from new is actually quite easy. If you want to get really scientific you can purchase a magnifying glass used to look at stamps or picture negatives to inspect the bruise more closely. Asphalt ages and weathers depending on the environment, but fresh, newer hail, is going to have sharper break impacts on the bruise where the asphalt was shattered or cracked. Older hail will obviously have more 'worn' edges at the break impacts, etc. In addition, the color of the asphalt will tell you an enormous amount about the age. Fresher storms will still be much darker and 'blacker' in color while older storms will be more 'greyed out' in color. You can actually go around a roof if you are bored and determine how many different storms it may have based on the aging differences in the impacts (if applicable).

The fiberglass in the impacts on the shingles can also be inspected with your handy magnifyer to determine if they have been exposed to UV long causing them to 'fray' or if they are still tought (sp?) and tightly wound. Splash marks generally will not stay on an oxidized surface for more than 6 to 18 months depending on the level of oxidation (not rust). If you dents have rust in them....probably not new hail.

When dealing on commercial roofing products such as modified bitumen, built up roofs, single ply, etc., there are many things I look for that are characteristic of hail. The funny thing is that most insurance adjusters look for fractures in the mat of the membrane to determine whether the system is compromised. This couln't be further from the truth. The ONLY thing the inter ply or screed of a membrane does is allow tensile strength to the system and the true waterproofing agent in the system which is the asphalt. With that being said...I shall teach all how to close each system with basic roofers knowledge and make an adjuster either understand or give up knowing he can't fight you.

Modifed bitumen will bruise very similar to shingles. The two types of modified bitumen (SBS or APP) will actually react very differently to hail impacts and need to be addressed for damage assesment in two different areas of thought.

APP modifed (Atactic Polypropylene) is actually a form of plastic. I always use the 'Tonka Truck Close' when discussing this type of system with an adjuster. If you leave a Tonka Truck (the old plastic ones) out in the sun, what happens to it? It becomes brittle. This roofing membrane is no different. UV rays bake the oils and plasticizers out of the membrane causing it to become brittle over time. The impact of the hailstones will actually fracture the 'plastic like' asphalt protecting the screed and allow for moisture to wick through the membrane over time. Standard freeze-thaw cycles will accelerate the aging of this membrane because while moisture is present in the fracture and freezes it actually will make the fissures larger b/c water expands as it freezes. Next time there is a larger fissure or fracture for more water which will freeze and make it even larger. And so on, and so on.

SBS modifed bitumen roof membranes are acutally very close to a true rubber. There is not an SBS membrane that does not come without a granular surface....did you realize that? Why? Because of a couple reasons. The biggest is the protection of the modifed asphalt used to make the membrane. The second is to further protect the polyester or fiberglass screed which is very sesceptible to UV exposure. When the impact damages the granular surface it can clearly be argued that due to the chemical make up of the product, it relies on the protection of these granules to peform. The least thing the insurance company will have to do is to re-granulate the entire roof or pay for some type of elastomeric restoration. Most of the time I get them to replace the roof, but it dependes on the level of damage.

Single ply roofs are susceptible in a couple ways as well. Mostly through fractures (see APP) and can be argued the same way. Another tool for single ply damage is to address the 'divots' in the insulation. If the insulation has been compomised it can effect the density, allow ponding water which can accelerate the aging process, etc. I have gotten roofs bought with no damage to the membrane, but to only replace the insulation underneath.....can't do that without a tear off and new membrane installation. TPO and PVC roofs will show a hail impact to look like the burner on a stove (not a smooth top stove). It will look like a curly circular pattern continually tracing outside of itself (like the burner on a stove). EPDM will usually slit. You want to stay away from any angular slits in a single ply as they are normally characteristic of mechanical damage. Don't call them hail.

Built up roof systems without interply damage (no obvious interply fractures) can be argued with the 'waterproofing' argument I presented in the opening 'commercial roofing' paragraph above. Impacts on gravel ballasted systems can actually have ballast driven into the asphalt or interply causing fractures, voids, and fissures.

I could go on longer, but I think I have already gotten way too excited b/c I LOVE talking roofs. Insofar as finishing the 'when' question. The only time it is an issue is when you are dealing with a relatively new policy with a new carrier. The one you mentioned was very similar to the 'hail everywhere else but I don't think it got out here'. I used logic and made the adjusters back themselves into a corner. I ended up going through three adjusters to the local manager and through what I have described herein and a very sweet talking voice, got her to relent. They were wrong and I basically told her not to let the uncomfortable office environment of her having to go back and tell her adjuster he is wrong overcome doing the right thing for these people. It worked, we roofed, customers happy.

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buildpinnacle

By the Way Ed:

You requested a newsletter from me like four months ago to check it out. I finally have ironed out the kinks and am sending out my first full mailing this week. I am going to email you a copy. Let me know if you want one mailed.

Jett

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kubie

we had a huge hailstorm here in WI 2 yrs ago or so with like 5" hail lots of roofs were done but some were not. i had an adjuster give the owner siding but no roof. that hail was huge and they didnt get a roof? he neighbors all got new ones. they told me it was not damaged. to me it looked like alot of hail strikes, but the adjuster told me it was the crappy new horizon shangles, the the raised part is coming off. i understand about the new horizon shangles failing(mostly weathered wood color) but come one. the pot vents were all smashed. all the home owner got was the vents and siding replaced. some adjuster only give the homeowner$ 120 to replace a full view screen door. the dang door costs more than that. lol and the home owner had replacement coverage some ins companies were great on paying out for replacement. some gave $325/sq on a 4/12 roof 1 layer others gave $175/sq on a 10/12 (that ins company would not budge a penny) 1 1/2 story home, 10/12 pitch. i called them and the just ragged on me. " i dont know who u think u are, ive been adjusting homes for 30 yrs" i said" ya right like u climbed up on the roof and just walked around" maybe the guy was so old he was still stuck in the the 80s or 90s for pricing. lol this is back when shingles were $60/sq