I got burned. Need advice. - Page 5 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

tc70518 · 07-01-2009, 09:23 PM

I already said I was going to give her options. No need to beat this dead horse anymore.

**Ed the Roofer** · 07-01-2009, 09:42 PM

There you go.

Ed

jumbo · 07-02-2009, 05:33 PM

TC, go spend a hundred bucks on an attorney. Lay this all out for him, he'll tell you what you should or should not do. Dont have any more correspondance of any kind with her until you get some REAL advice. It could possibly dig you a bigger hole. I once got into it with a job supe on a project that was sub'd out to me. I walked off the job.This guy was such a jerk he was like a cartoon character. I thought I could possibly get sued for not completing my signed contract. Called an attorney on my way home, he said dont worry about it, in fact they were still responsible to pay me for the last three days of work I had performed. By the time I had made it home,MOTHER*****ER, if there wasn't a message from their office asking me if I'd come back and if not to send them a bill for the work I had performed. Good luck in the future.

**Double-A** · 07-03-2009, 12:19 AM

TC, would you like to know what is farked up about this whole thing?

A. You're not the person she spoke to about the shutters in the first place.
B. Four weeks go by and no a single word cane from the person she did buy the shutters from, nor from you.
C. Two more weeks pass and suddenly, her beautiful shutters won't be available for 3 more weeks because of unbelievable cluster farks from your suppliers. Not her suppliers, YOUR suppliers.
D. Suddenly, you're in the picture telling her that you will "try" this and "try" that, and meanwhile, she just wants to know when her purty new shutters are gonna get put on her home.

Now, words were said that can't be unsaid, only apologized for. Opportunities to meet expectations were unrealized due to broken promises on your side of the fence by your powder coater.

Considering all of the above, put yourself in her situation. You don't keep regular hours and are coming out to disrupt her Sunday afternoon to start a job that should have been started a month ago. She's pretty sure she doesn't know who she is actually dealing with, let alone why. She also knows that you're liable to fly off the handle if she doesn't say what you want to hear.

Think like a woman for a minute. When a man and a woman have a relationship, and the man yells at her, or gets upset at her, she's likely to never want to trust that man again. Well, you got upset with her.

So rather than trying to explain what she really would like to see happen here because she's afraid of upsetting you, she's "breaking up" with you. Its high school first love drama all over again.

"Stop calling me. Don't come by my house."

She's the victim here and no one is going to see it differently. You can cry foul all you want, but the reality is, you rear ended any hopes of salvaging this alone when you lost your cool. I don't care how much you apologized, the fact is, you can't unsay what you said, or how you said it. You intimidated her and she wants nothing more to do with you or those damned shutters at this point.

Where do you go from here? Not to an attorney. Try a female friend in the business. Explain the whole thing to them, and let them contact her.

When they do, they should let her know that you're quite upset and embarrassed by this whole thing, and you want to do everything in your power to make it right. But, you need the green light from this woman.

At this point, she's lost faith in you, the salesman that sold her this job, your suppliers and powder coaters, but especially, she sees you as incompetent. This has led her I'm sure, to believe these shutters, no matter how beautiful they look, have been touched by so many ignorant and incapable people, that there is no way they can ever be right.

If you decide to see her in person, take your wife with you, or some other trusted female friend. This will help to put her at ease. Better yet, don't contact her, let your wife or female friend talk to her and go see her and find out her expectations.

As far as this woman not paying you. Nothing you have said would lead me to believe that. I think if you get the chance to install these shutters, everyone will feel better.

You forgot the most important part of the business. The client always comes first. If you don't find out her motivation and concerns and address them head on, you've lost on so many levels that it will eat at your confidence and turn you into a paranoid twit.

My three rules for this business are simple.
1. Say it.
2. Mean it.
3. Do it.

Sometimes meaning it means going to visit your powder coater in person and telling them you're not leaving until they straighten their mess out.

Sometimes it means going to visit your shutter supplier and telling them you're not leaving without everything you have paid for, in good and proper shape, at the price agreed upon. If this means you're gonna have a come to Jesus talk with the owner/manager, so be it. Be assertive, not aggressive. Assert your right to be the most important thing going on at that business that day. Demand your right to be the most pressing thing they have to get done before that 5 o'clock whistle blows.

You didn't, and this woman knows you didn't go to bat for her.

Would you stay in a relationship where you are being jerked around? I wouldn't, and I guess your client wouldn't either.

Ball is in your court TC. This is one of those times in business that we tell ourselves when we're new to it, that it will never happen to me, but I can tell you this isn't the last time this will happen.

You need to OWN your role in this cludged up mess and own it outright. I'd start with letters of confession and culpability from my suppliers and service providers that dropped the ball, written to this woman personally. Don't forget to include your own. Ask her forgiveness and let her know that you're willing to go the extra mile to make this whole thing right and see she is happy with the final outcome.

If she is unwilling, then ask her where you can deliver her shutters and when. If she doesn't want the shutters, ask her to sign something granting full ownership of the shutters to you and to vacate all her rights and claims on them.

By doing this, you will instill in her mind first of all, that this is a business relationship and not a personal relationship. That what she saw was you struggling to get a handle on a situation that you didn't have much experience with, but one now that you have a good handle on.

Further, but doing this, you instill in her mind that despite her 13 year old reaction of "quit calling me, stay away from my house", she still has a responsiblity and a need to finish this thing properly, one way or another.

Good Luck...

Oh, and one more thing. Crow tastes best when eaten fresh, and with great humility, and the knowledge that this will be the last time you will have to eat this dish for these reason, ever.

PGD · 07-03-2009, 12:56 AM

That has to be the longest post Ever outside the P&R!!

This dead horse is officially beaten!

terry714_us · 07-03-2009, 11:36 AM

You should always try to be as nice as you can and just keep going over the same delays. Part were on backorder etc etc. Put it in writing. Put everything in writing. I always use email for correspondence. Everything is in writing. And when you deliver your final invoice have a lien waiver with you, unsigned of course until you get you cash. Just let her no that your policy is that the waiver will not be endorced until check is cleared. This way she is not getting away with what everyone in the world tries to get away with. Getting something nice for the nothing price. I do it, you do it. It's the American way. Now, GO GET EM! IT'S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD! YAHOO YEAH. oK now back to work

B_Boop · 07-03-2009, 05:33 PM

No attorney. Just clear communication. "I understand, mam"...."I screwed up mam"...I'd like to make this right for you, mam".
Hat in hand, shutters in the truck, check in your pocket, contract in your briefcase waiting for amendment and, guys outside waiting to do the job right there at that moment.
Your getting a lot of grief from these fellows....as right u should. Never do this again, or maybe you should just put an attorney on retainer!

This poor guy belongs in the hall of shame.....but on a positive note, he wasn't too proud to come here to ask for help.

Or maybe that was just inexperience. He just never saw all this recrimination coming

Suck it up guy...and get on with the business of making this poor lady happy!
There are just too many fellows out there like you.....and I must say it is tempting, when errors happen to sweep it under the rug (decorator humor!)
Do the right thing...it will go a long way towards building your business.

BattleRidge · 07-04-2009, 05:06 PM

Kinda took that out of context. If you have multiple contacts with a unhappy customer and they tell you not to come by their house and to just leave them alone. You are right. You should totally keep hastling them. Make them get a restraining order before you stop. Even then you would be a pussy to quit. GOOD PLAN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner10

Ed, looks like were on the same page here.

Some people need more then a phone call, I realize that you feel your not in the wrong, and between you me and the wall maby your on the straight and narrow; but in her eyes you arn't.

Yeah! Great Advice! Got a snag? Just put your head in the sand and ignore it! Don't bother Expressing yourself in a diplomatic fashion and sorting things out just change your phone number and head for Mexico with you half paid for shutters! Yeee-haw

Stressing just makes it worse and that causes outbursts and really mucks things up. Just be honest....For instance recently I had a multi-boardroom system that was needed for a certain date. The company I worked for said it would be done in days where it actually takes weeks. I sat down with the owner and explained to him that there was no possible way it will be 100% for when he neede it, so we worked out the vital components that were required for the date and I had them working 100%.

During the course of the last-minuit project I was up as late as 2 or 3 am working on it, because I had to get it done. When other people asked me again and again "Hey Kev, Arn't ya' worried you won't be done on time?"....I replied "Nope, not worried at all....cause it ain't gonna be done on time, but I'l get working on time"

I'l bet ya' a coffee if you take the advice of Ed and myself, drop by as ED so gracefuly said "hat in hand" and loose the chip on your shoulder things will be worked out A1. Even if the woman is terminally unhappy with life, I think she a) still wants shutters and b) doesnt want to throw her money away. Don't giver her discounts or freebies, just be honest.

Let me know how that works out before you start thinking about lawyers; but manning up and smoothing things over can be a very hard pill to swallow!

tc70518 · 07-07-2009, 11:12 AM

I talked to the customer, and she explained to me that her diabetes has been acting up badly lately, and she claims that she never told me she didn't want the shutters. She says she just didn't want to talk to anyone at the time, until she was ready. The voicemail I have saved says otherwise, but I don't care about that at this point. I think she just needed time to cool off and not be bothered, and that is what I gave her.

She told me it was totally up to me if I wanted to finish the job or just drop off the shutters, or whatever. I told her I really wanted to make things right and that I would be happy to install the job next week. She was happy with that. Her tone was a complete 180 from what it was last week. This is the most confusing person I've ever dealt with, but for now, all things seem to be headed in the right direction. I have all her voicemails and all my reciepts on standby just in case she doesn't pay up next week.

rbsremodeling · 07-07-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc70518

I talked to the customer, and she explained to me that her diabetes has been acting up badly lately, and she claims that she never told me she didn't want the shutters. She says she just didn't want to talk to anyone at the time, until she was ready. The voicemail I have saved says otherwise, but I don't care about that at this point. I think she just needed time to cool off and not be bothered, and that is what I gave her.

She told me it was totally up to me if I wanted to finish the job or just drop off the shutters, or whatever. I told her I really wanted to make things right and that I would be happy to install the job next week. She was happy with that. Her tone was a complete 180 from what it was last week. This is the most confusing person I've ever dealt with, but for now, all things seem to be headed in the right direction. I have all her voicemails and all my reciepts on standby just in case she doesn't pay up next week.

She got another couple of estimates all higher than yours. She knows which horse to ride now.

tc70518 · 07-07-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbsremodeling

She got another couple of estimates all higher than yours. She knows which horse to ride now.

Most of the bigger shutter companies around here have a 2-3 month wait for a job that size, and they cost twice as much as my bid, so you're probably right.

J F · 07-07-2009, 12:04 PM

glad to hear it might work out...

**Ed the Roofer** · 07-07-2009, 01:35 PM

Good news.

Now, to document the conversation, send her a Thank You note, but also verify the information discussed and re-write down the installation date as a confirmation and then Stick To It, no matter what.

Ed

Mike(VA) · 07-07-2009, 04:51 PM

I call people like that 'HRT's'. Hormone Replacement Therapy. Runs them ragged and fries their thought processes.

**Double-A** · 07-08-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGD

That has to be the longest post Ever outside the P&R!!

This dead horse is officially beaten!

Naw, you should see how long it gets when I get excited.