I got burned. Need advice. - Page 3 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

**genecarp** · 06-30-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darwin

Dude, it's so many things wrong about the way you do business. You suck at business. Get out now. Where do you start???

First, you shouldn't be sending out employee to sell jobs without:
a) fee structures to you won't lose your shirt
b) competent employee who will be realistic with the customer.

Of course she's pissed because you got half her money, you haven't done the install (10 weeks???), and again, you got half her money

. So what if your friggin' A/C went out. Blow - it - out - yer - butt

??

Contract not co-signed? Whatever aineehow, Yo fault. How long you been in business? Since last Thursday?

You need to get what's coming to you. It's called the school of hard knocks. Time to get a few knuckles to the ole monetary dome; because, all I see is you pretendin' to be in bizness.

You haven't heard from her anymore but I bet you hear from small claims...

TELL HIM WHAT YOU REALLY THINK

knucklehead · 06-30-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc70518

Name fits

Thank you. what does your name mean?
What do you want me to say?
Poor Baby?

Earthworkssdu · 06-30-2009, 09:49 PM

Sorry for the bad job. But I would consider the poor word of mouth that travels like wildfire. I would suggest trying to find a way to install the product at a reduced rate and apologize for the slow turn a round. In the end the customer was promised a delivery schedule by some one you chose to represent you, and in accepting her deposit you were agreeing to that schedule. Best of luck, I hope all ends well.

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darwin

Dude, it's so many things wrong about the way you do business. You suck at business. Get out now. Where do you start???

First, you shouldn't be sending out employee to sell jobs without:
a) fee structures to you won't lose your shirt
b) competent employee who will be realistic with the customer.

Of course she's pissed because you got half her money, you haven't done the install (10 weeks???), and again, you got half her money

. So what if your friggin' A/C went out. Blow - it - out - yer - butt

??

Contract not co-signed? Whatever aineehow, Yo fault. How long you been in business? Since last Thursday?

You need to get what's coming to you. It's called the school of hard knocks. Time to get a few knuckles to the ole monetary dome; because, all I see is you pretendin' to be in bizness.

You haven't heard from her anymore but I bet you hear from small claims...

Whatever you say buddy. Idiot.

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knucklehead

Thank you. what does your name mean?
What do you want me to say?
Poor Baby?

Say what you want knucklehead. I was asking for legal advice from experienced contractors who were willing to give good advice.. I've only been self employed for a year. Yes, I'm still learning the ins and outs. If you had no good advice to give, then you could have just kept quiet.

BuildingHomes · 06-30-2009, 10:14 PM

Yes, forget her as a customer and expect her to be the plantiff in the lawsuit coming your way asking for the deposit back plus something for her wasted time.

Based on the details in your OP she was the one calling you asking for the status. Not good. Honestly your delays are not her problem. Sh!t happens, but make sure you have a contingency plan to nip these things in the bud.

Keep your clients up to date, even if nothing has changed, tell them nothing has changed just so they know you haven't forgotten about them. Email is great for that.

And I don't get this part:

Quote:

The person who sold the job was someone who works for a company that I do sub work for.

So another company sold the job and you are sub'ing for them to do it? So why is their client calling you? Or was this a commissioned sales person? They sell it, you pay them and take over from there?

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuildingHomes

Yes, forget her as a customer and expect her to be the plantiff in the lawsuit coming your way asking for the deposit back plus something for her wasted time.

Based on the details in your OP she was the one calling you asking for the status. Not good. Honestly your delays are not her problem. Sh!t happens, but make sure you have a contingency plan to nip these things in the bud.

Keep your clients up to date, even if nothing has changed, tell them nothing has changed just so they know you haven't forgotten about them. Email is great for that.

And I don't get this part:

So another company sold the job and you are sub'ing for them to do it? So why is their client calling you? Or was this a commissioned sales person? They sell it, you pay them and take over from there?

It was the company I used to work for. I started my own company and they sub a lot of work out to me, mainly aluminum welding. It's work that has nothing to do with shutters. They were there bidding on another job and she mentioned shutters, so I get the demensions, faxed over a bid, since it was 100 miles away, and they closed the deal, got a commission and I took over. I'm well aware that I mishandled the situation, mispriced the shutters, yada yada. Like I said, I've only been self employed for about a year, and I'm still learning. I learned from it, and it won't happen again. But I did the best I could in keeping her informed the last few weeks. That's all I can say. I hate to keep having to explain this over and over because people obviously think I'm wining about it. I'm not. So I'm through talking about the details of what happened. Thanks to those that offered solid advice. To the others, whatever. Talking down to a green entrepreneur doesn't make you a better man.

**Ed the Roofer** · 06-30-2009, 10:37 PM

This isn't a forum for Legal Advice.

Legal "Opinions" possibly, but not real actual in your area statutes like advice.

Remember, the "Advice" is worth what you are paing for it.

If you truly want Legal Advice, then pay your attorney for more than the free consultation he probably provided for you.

Better than that, suck it up, and eat crow and do whatever the heck it takes to try to make things as right as possible with the customer.

I read this thread 3 times now and no matter how you slice and dice it, YOU did not communicate with the client and keep her informed.

Don't do an e-mail now and no phone calls, except for the one that you make to tell her you would like to sit down with her and make things as right as possible. At this point, Fvck any thoughts you have about how much of a loss or a minor profit the job should or could make.

Thats immaterial.

Make yourself out to be a Good Ethical Contractor who stands by his word, regardless of cost and circumstances in this occasion, since YOU dropped the ball big enough to get her so pizzed off and irate at you.

At this point, if I were in your shoes, I would even state quite clearly, how grateful you would be to be able to finish off her custom fabricated shutters and that if she is not satisfied once you are done, it won't cost her a dime.

Going to any version of the legal system and thinking that you would come out ahead is just totally ludicrous, so you would be better off finishing up and MAKING SURE she was satisfied with every single minutes worth of work.

Get on that phone first thing and arrange to meet with her, even if it winds up being that you will just provide her the shutters that she ordered and that, even though you under-priced them, that she did pay for.

Good luck on seeing this from a clear an unbiased vantage point and hopefully, you can come to some agreeable understanding.

Ed

Inner10 · 06-30-2009, 10:40 PM

In my years in business I've delt with some of the worst (whom I wish I never did) and some of the best. But the bottom line is I dealt with them, you on the other hand are not "dealing" with the person. I realize that there are lots of high maintenance people out there; and they require special treatment and you have to work that into your billing or eat it.

Diplomacy is the best skill you can learn if your doing business on your own, never bury your head in the sand and ignore things, even if you think you're right or the other person is unreasonable. Being unreasonable is human nature, don't like it don't go into a business where you have to deal with people its as simple as that.

If I were in your shoes I would quite simply drive out to the persons house and talk it over with them. NEVER let a conversation get heated on your behalf; I've had diabetics and seriously mentally sick people go insane and yell at me, threatning me to a point where I wanted to kill them and hide the bodies. But I always kept my cool and worked things out; 99% of the time I get appologies or gifts for maintaining my composure.

You should have had a serious discussion before if you knew it would take longer. You should have kept her better informed with the delays...but you didn't so get over it!

Now your in slight sticky situation, but nothing that cannot be patched up; your not ready to go up to bat in court or tarnish your green reputation.

Its shocking how pure honesty and some kind appolegetic words can fix things right up; explaine your mistakes, admit to them, appologise for them, and fix them. Do not ignore the problem.

I've always lived by my own words "Me Fcukie, Me Fixie!"

**Ed the Roofer** · 06-30-2009, 10:49 PM

Looks like we were thinking along the exact same lines at the same time.

Ed

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 10:50 PM

Well, I didn't ignore it. I left several messages asking to discuss it with her, and she only called back to say stop calling and do not come to my house. That was just yesterday. I'm trying to decide where to go from here.

**Ed the Roofer** · 06-30-2009, 10:54 PM

Go hat in hand and somberly knock on her door and request politely to speak with her and resolve the complaint.

Bring the shutters with you as a good will gesture and tell her they are ready and you would like to take the bad taste of her experience so far, out of her mouth, if she will give you the chance and say Please.

Whats the worst that can happen?

She still will not let you finish the contracted work?

So what then, you are in no worse position than you are now, but the court system is not Fair, it is Just. Justice does not necessarily equate to fairness and I see you on the losing end of any court battle.

Ed

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 11:07 PM

While I still maintain that, legally, I did nothing wrong, I'll take that into consideration. Like someone above stated, I don't think a court will hang me for being a few weeks late. I talked to her about 6 or 7 times in the last month, and I initiated half of those calls. She just out of the blue stopped the job after telling me the day before, "See you tomorrow." Something is not adding up.

BattleRidge · 06-30-2009, 11:24 PM

Man, walk away.
Now you know your shutters should be priced at least 1800 bucks more on the deposit.

Quit trying to make it other peoples fault, you took to long, apologies only do so much. I have lost jobs by being a couple days late.

Dont rush.

It doesnt make someone bigger to tell you how it is. We could all give you a hug and let you go on your merry way and you wouldnt have learned anything. Last year I got ripped off for a total of 11k at 21 yrs old. **** Happens. I changed the way I do things alot.

10 weeks is a long freaking time. If I was a week late I would be embarrased as crap.

Why dont you try to sell them at a discounted price on craigslist or ebay? Unless your parents were going to pay for them....... Then you could maybe recoupe some of your losses.

Just learn from it and good luck in later dealings.

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleRidge

Man, walk away.
Now you know your shutters should be priced at least 1800 bucks more on the deposit.

Quit trying to make it other peoples fault, you took to long, apologies only do so much. I have lost jobs by being a couple days late.

Dont rush.

It doesnt make someone bigger to tell you how it is. We could all give you a hug and let you go on your merry way and you wouldnt have learned anything. Last year I got ripped off for a total of 11k at 21 yrs old. **** Happens. I changed the way I do things alot.

10 weeks is a long freaking time. If I was a week late I would be embarrased as crap.

Why dont you try to sell them at a discounted price on craigslist or ebay? Unless your parents were going to pay for them....... Then you could maybe recoupe some of your losses.

Just learn from it and good luck in later dealings.

Yea. Thanks for the advice. I stressed for a month, losing sleep, over not being able to have this job done. Its a helpless feeling when Murphy's Law shows up over and over again for the same job. But I plan on correcting all of these mistakes moving forward.

Inner10 · 07-01-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Go hat in hand and somberly knock on her door and request politely to speak with her and resolve the complaint.

Ed, looks like were on the same page here.

Quote:

Well, I didn't ignore it. I left several messages asking to discuss it with her, and she only called back to say stop calling and do not come to my house. That was just yesterday. I'm trying to decide where to go from here.

Some people need more then a phone call, I realize that you feel your not in the wrong, and between you me and the wall maby your on the straight and narrow; but in her eyes you arn't.

Quote:

Man, walk away.

Yeah! Great Advice! Got a snag? Just put your head in the sand and ignore it! Don't bother Expressing yourself in a diplomatic fashion and sorting things out just change your phone number and head for Mexico with you half paid for shutters! Yeee-haw

Quote:

Yea. Thanks for the advice. I stressed for a month, losing sleep, over not being able to have this job done. Its a helpless feeling when Murphy's Law shows up over and over again for the same job. But I plan on correcting all of these mistakes moving forward.

Stressing just makes it worse and that causes outbursts and really mucks things up. Just be honest....For instance recently I had a multi-boardroom system that was needed for a certain date. The company I worked for said it would be done in days where it actually takes weeks. I sat down with the owner and explained to him that there was no possible way it will be 100% for when he neede it, so we worked out the vital components that were required for the date and I had them working 100%.

During the course of the last-minuit project I was up as late as 2 or 3 am working on it, because I had to get it done. When other people asked me again and again "Hey Kev, Arn't ya' worried you won't be done on time?"....I replied "Nope, not worried at all....cause it ain't gonna be done on time, but I'l get working on time"

I'l bet ya' a coffee if you take the advice of Ed and myself, drop by as ED so gracefuly said "hat in hand" and loose the chip on your shoulder things will be worked out A1. Even if the woman is terminally unhappy with life, I think she a) still wants shutters and b) doesnt want to throw her money away. Don't giver her discounts or freebies, just be honest.

Let me know how that works out before you start thinking about lawyers; but manning up and smoothing things over can be a very hard pill to swallow!

Mike(VA) · 07-01-2009, 06:22 AM

TC, you asked for advice and you got some; much of which you don't like to hear. You have made two mistakes with this entire episode.

1.) You don't run your business in a professional manner. A professional business owner would have recognized the downward slide of the situation and taken immediate steps to mitigate it. You made phone calls, you didn't solve anything. Maybe you don't have enough experience to have kept this from happening but you do now. You need to have processes in place so that even unexpected events are dealt with promptly, effectively, and professionally.

2.) You let your emotions guide your actions after everything went south. This is business and you need to keep your emotions out of it when dealing with this clients. Your posts are telling us that you are pissed about this issue and that you can't let it go. When that happens, you will never be able to resolve the situation in a professional manner.

Two emotions are allowed in business: a smile when you deposit the checks and the satisfaction of a job professionally done.

Now, you stated:

I was asking for legal advice from experienced contractors who were willing to give good advice.. I've only been self employed for a year. Yes, I'm still learning the ins and outs. If you had no good advice to give, then you could have just kept quiet.

How do you know what good advice is?

tc70518 · 07-01-2009, 07:08 AM

I was only asking to see what more experienced contractors have done in this situation. I said advice, but I should have said opinions. I am going to consult a lawyer before moving forward.

There was only one conversation where I let my emotions get the best of me, and I recognized my mistake, I apologized, sent her a very nice thank you card, thanking her for her business, apologizing for the way our conversation went, apologizing for the delays, and we had a very nice long chat after she got the card. I thought things were smoothed over, and after that, I communicated with her very well about every step. She was sending me very mixed signals on whether or not she was okay with the delays after that. I was completely caught off guard when she canceled. I guess in the end, I paid for my lack of communication the first 6 weeks, and all the effort after that was too little too late.

As far as me not being able to solve things in a professional manner. I started this thread to get feedback on how I can do just that. I could have just ignored her and swept it under the rug, but I'm trying to resolve this in a proper manner. Pissed? Yea, I was a little pissed the last couple of days. It was hard not to be. But I'm over it.

I appreciate all of the advice. Even if it was something I didn't want to hear, I know I needed to hear it. I humbly accept all the replies in this thread.

**genecarp** · 07-01-2009, 07:14 AM

For what its worth, the TS is guilty of a couple of things, poor communication, and a delay in delivering. Now, if all of you seasoned pros maintain that in your lenthy career you have not been guilty of this on occasion, i maintain that you have a case of amnesia. Also remember, things can and do go wrong on jobs, things get delayed, things come in damaged, the client needs to understand this, and not flip out if things dont go exactly as planned. There is a possibilty that TC has an unreasonable client, This possibilty does not excuse TC for the mistakes he made, but this must be considered when evaluating the situation and offering advice. G

strathd · 07-01-2009, 07:49 AM

I was only asking to see what more experienced contractors have done in this situation.

I would'nt be in this situation. I allways keep my customers updated on job progress through communication. When people don't hear from someone they allways think the worst.

I have had jobs that did'nt go as planned but I allways keep the customer informed on what exactly is going on. And they allways appreciate my effort to keep them informed.

COMMUNICATION IS A VIRTUE !!!!