I got burned. Need advice. - Page 2 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 04:51 PM

Thanks Warren. This has been a great experience for me. I have definitely learned from this one. I just added this product to my line, and I'm a little green still regarding this product. I really think this woman needed an out, and didn't have the money to pay the balance. She never once said anything about getting her deposit back. Her words exactly were, "Just forget me as a customer", and she refused to talk to me after that.

It's very hard to rationalize with irrational people.

WarriorWithWood · 06-30-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc70518

It's very hard to rationalize with irrational people.

More like impossible.

J F · 06-30-2009, 05:05 PM

The best you can hope for is that she really is crazy...and totally forgets about her deposit...but don't bank on it.

ChainsawCharlie · 06-30-2009, 05:15 PM

Seems to me like she was told a few different deadlines-

4-6 weeks
then 3 weeks
then next week....

And she called you at the end of each of those deadlines, when she didn't see or hear from you.

I do not see her being in the wrong here.

Whewn you knew you weren't going to make the deadline, YOU should have called her to explean..."Hello Mrs xxxxx, I just heard from the powder coater, they had a minor hang up, etc, etc, etc... "

Had you been the one calling her before she had to call you, I'm guessing things would have been quite a bit different.

COMMUNICATION.

Never underestimate the power of it.

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 05:43 PM

My communication the first 6 weeks was bad. I admit it. I admitted it to her. The last few weeks, I communicated with her as much as I could. If I say I'll try to be there late next week, and she calls me Tuesday at 7 a.m. yelling at me, what can I do? If I say I'll try to start late Sunday and she calls me Sunday morning at 10 a.m. yelling at me, what can I do? I'm not used to coddling my customers like that. I'm way to busy to call a customer every other day and tell them exactly what steps I took over the last 48 hours of the process. I can't run my business efficiently doing that to every customer. No one could. If I gave that treatment to some other customers, they would say leave me the hell alone and call me when you're ready to install. Most of my customers are like that. I've never had to deal with a person like this, but now I know what to do next time.

J F · 06-30-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc70518

My communication the first 6 weeks was bad. I admit it. I admitted it to her. The last few weeks, I communicated with her as much as I could. If I say I'll try to be there late next week, and she calls me Tuesday at 7 a.m. yelling at me, what can I do? If I say I'll try to start late Sunday and she calls me Sunday morning at 10 a.m. yelling at me, what can I do? I'm not used to coddling my customers like that. I'm way to busy to call a customer every other day and tell them exactly what steps I took over the last 48 hours of the process. I can't run my business efficiently doing that to every customer. No one could. If I gave that treatment to some other customers, they would say leave me the hell alone and call me when you're ready to install. Most of my customers are like that. I've never had to deal with a person like this, but now I know what to do next time.

Under the circumstances, a call on Saturday with an update probably would have gone a looong way

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J F

Under the circumstances, a call on Saturday with an update probably would have gone a looong way

I called her Friday at 4 pm when I picked up the pallet of shutters and left her a voicemail. She didn't call me back until Saturday morning. So I did talk to her on Saturday. What else could I have done? I still think she just needed an out.

J F · 06-30-2009, 06:09 PM

So what did you tell her on Saturday? (I must have missed it).

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 06:16 PM

I told her I would be there Sunday afternoon. She said, "do you normally work on weekends?". I said I work when I need to work, and I have no problem working on weekends. She said okay great, see you tomorrow. So you can understand my confusion by her call Sunday morning, then the cancellation a couple hours later a few hours before I was going to start the install.

J F · 06-30-2009, 06:18 PM

does she have alzheimers?

B_Boop · 06-30-2009, 06:20 PM

Continuing this job with the lady would likely have her stiff you after you're done.
I would, however send her a certified letter, nicely stating the sequence of events, and your attempt to honor the severely underbid job. I have always found that offering the client options, leaves them a bit more satisfied in finding resolution. However, do not make the mistake of allowing her to just move forward without an addition to the contract, stating a new completion date, no penalty assessed. and that the balance remains the same, signed by both of you. You might also ask for final payment by certified check.
Also, I would tell her that you have already invested substantial funds into the project. If this job was underbid, she will not be able to reproduce the pricing elsewhere. But, if u truly want to cancel the deal and install on your parents home,...then send the letter, certified, with the full deposit refund, and the details as above.....and that you are taking her at HER WORD.....that she wants to cancel the contract. And, you are allowing her to do so.
Hope this helps.....PS- keep copies of all communications. If she really saw an attorney....she may be gearing up to haul u into court.

Your choice

J F · 06-30-2009, 06:28 PM

Don't whine about under bidding to your client

naptown CR · 06-30-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genecarp

Sounds like the relationship is not salvageable. You are willing to do the install, she is declining, you keep the deposit. You already know what you did wrong, no reason to remind you. The next move is hers, i would store the shutters for several months just in case she comes at you. After the smoke clears, give your parents a nice anniversary gift. G.

PS, this advice assumes you are licensed and insured, if you are not, the BBB can come down on you hard, you will lose if she files a complaint.

Gene Best avatar yet keep this one

I would send her an invoice for the remainder of the contract less your labor COST to install. You have a lot of time and money tied up in this and most of it is off site work. If she ponies up give her the shutters and go away. Cash only no checks. If you don't get a response take her to court. Start and completion dates are approximate and no court is going to hang you for being a few weeks late.

CookeCarpentry · 06-30-2009, 06:52 PM

I would make sure that future contracts include full payment up front of any special order materials that cannot be returned. Other down payments are usually set forth by the state.

In one of your posts you said that from now on your contracts will state that "no refund on deposits after work as begun" or something to those effects. I don't know exactly how legal that is - consult your lawyer.

As far as how to handle the whole situation - sounds like you dropped the ball and you now realize it. Don't wait for her to ask for her deposit back, refund it with a certified letter summarizing the events. Apologize profusely. If she wants to have you install the product, draw up a new contract, and try and re-coup some of your costs.

Refunding the deposit and not hearing from her is probably the best thing. No news is good news. Meaning she isn't taking you to court. You can't please them all. I think you probably realize that some customers require more "coddling" than others - factor that into future estimates/bids. Work on better communication.

Even with the best plan in place, sometimes customers just turn out to be a PITA. As it has been said here before many times, underpromise and overdeliver.

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naptown CR

Start and completion dates are approximate and no court is going to hang you for being a few weeks late.

This is exactly how I feel. Some of the responses I've gotten from people in this thread make me think that some of you think I deserve to lose over 4 thousand dollars out of my bank account and weeks of unpaid labor, simply because she was told 4-6 weeks and my vendor and powder coater caused me to run a month late. She gets her money back, and I'm stuck with 32 custom sized shutters panels that are powder coated, and other than a few of them that will fit my parent's house, are a complete waste. I refuse to let her run over me like that. If she wanted 6 weeks as a hard deadline, she should have demanded it be put in the contract. Fact is, she asked how long and was told about 4-6 weeks. There was no promise, no guarantee.

Cooke-the only way I feel I dropped the ball is lack of communication the first month. Everything else was out of my control. I had delays that I couldn't control, and I explained all of that to her. My vendor dropped the ball more than one occasion during this job. I was sent wrong materials, damaged materials, and stuff was on back order. My vendor alone caused me well over a month in delays. I was to the point where I was looking for a new vendor, but I couldn't find another company who offered storm shutter components close to this area. Then my powder coater promised (and this was an actual promise) me that he would turn my job over in 3 days. I told him before I gave him the shutters that I was under the gun and would only give them to him if he could turn it over quickly. He went on vacation a couple days later, and when I called the day my job was promised, he was nowhere to be found, and they had no idea about the promise he made, and I didn't get the shutters til 4 days later. That ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back. He did email me from vacation and apologized profusely and wants to make it up to me somehow.

As far as her having alzheimers, I don't think so. She remembers way to much, but she does have a bad case of selective memory. I am 100% convinced that she has a bipolar disorder. It has felt like I've been dealing with 2 different people, alternating conversations with me.

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J F

Don't whine about under bidding to your client

I certainly didn't do this. But she actually asked me, at one point, how much money I had made on her $2500 deposit, while I was already over budget. I simply told her I was already over budget. She even offered to give me more money when the job was completed, so I was properly compensated. I refused and told her that I don't work like that, and once a price is set in a contract, that's the one I stick to.

I was very good to this woman given the circumstances, and she bailed on me last minute. There's really no other way I can put it.

knucklehead · 06-30-2009, 08:27 PM

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

katoman · 06-30-2009, 08:36 PM

I agree with naptown, get paid for the product, don't install, take her to small claims, or consult your attorney as how best to proceed.

Or you could send a couple of "bikers" over with the shutters - they will collect for you. Usual price is 25% of amount owed.

tc70518 · 06-30-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knucklehead

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Name fits

Darwin · 06-30-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc70518

The customer paid a 50% deposit for the shutters. She signed and dated the proposal. She was told 4-6 weeks by the person who sold the job, but that time frame was a.)not approved by me and b.) nowhere on the proposal.

6 weeks-customer calls me and says "where's my shutters?" I told her that parts of the shutters were on backorder, and as soon as I got the necessary parts, I would complete them, send them to the powder coater and install them. She asked for a date, and I told her 3 weeks, which would put the install at 9 weeks. I apologized for the misinformation on the 4-6 weeks promise and informed her that it was supposed to be 6-8 weeks. She said, okay, and seemed fine with that explanation.

8 weeks on Tuesday-customer calls asking about her shutters. I told her that I finally got all the parts and was finishing them this week. I told her I would send them off to the powder coater this week and HOPEFULLY by late next week I would come to put them up.

7 days later, the following Tuesday of the week I told her I would try to come at the end of, she leaves a very nasty voicemail saying, "this is not the way to do business. I haven't heard word one about your promise to install my shutters this week." I was furious by this time. Here I am, busting my ass in the heat of my shop(in which the AC had gone out) to finish these shutters for this impatient customer, and she is pestering me about them being late over and over again. I called her back, and we had a semi heated exchange after she started hurling insults at me. We ended the conversation on a high note, when I told her they were at the powder coater and as soon as they were done, I would come to install them.

There was a delay with the powder coating and it ended up pushing it back another week. I finally get them back right at week 10. I tell her on Friday that I was going to finish all the hinges and finishing touches that weekend and I was going to TRY to start Sunday afternoon. She seemed happy.

Sunday morning-this woman calls me and says "Where are you??? I had a lawyer look at the contract, and he says it's not binding because it wasn't cosigned. I can back out right now if I want."

The next morning, she left me another voicemail and said, "Stop calling me. Do not come by my house."

She never asked for the deposit back. Never asked for any of the shutters. She made it plain and clear that she didn't want to hear from me anymore and didn't want me on her property. The highs and lows of this woman make me believe she is bipolar.

I was terribly overbudget and ended up spending some $1500-$1800 more than the deposit on this job. I bid about half of what I should have due to inexperience and a rushed bid. I was making practically nothing on this job, but I was trying to make her happy. Now I'm stuck with 32 custom sized shutter panels, almost 2 grand in the hole. Legally, where do I go from here? Do I need to send her a certified letter? Should I try to recoup some money from her for my losses?

A lot of the shutters just happen to actually fit on my parent's house, and I would really like to put them on their house to replace their old wooden faux shutters. The entire from of the house matches in window sizes. But I don't want to do anything with the product until I know I'm legally in the clear. I know almost everyone on here has had experiences like this, and what I learned from this experience is invaluable, so I'm willing to eat the loss and wipe my hands clean from this lady and her sour attitude. I just want to make sure that I do what is legally required of me.

Sorry so long. I wanted to make sure you knew the whole story.

Dude, it's so many things wrong about the way you do business. You suck at business. Get out now. Where do you start???

First, you shouldn't be sending out employee to sell jobs without:
a) fee structures to you won't lose your shirt
b) competent employee who will be realistic with the customer.

Of course she's pissed because you got half her money, you haven't done the install (10 weeks???), and again, you got half her money

. So what if your friggin' A/C went out. Blow - it - out - yer - butt

??

Contract not co-signed? Whatever aineehow, Yo fault. How long you been in business? Since last Thursday?

You need to get what's coming to you. It's called the school of hard knocks. Time to get a few knuckles to the ole monetary dome; because, all I see is you pretendin' to be in bizness.

You haven't heard from her anymore but I bet you hear from small claims...