How To Pay Piece Meal And Sleep At Night

dirt diggler

With work booked as of now ... and expected work to come in ... not to mention the "spring rush" and "summer slam"

I stand a 75% chance at eventually having to hire an employee this year. Maybe soon.



I want to pay someone as a sub (which I call piece meal - evidently there's more in-depth definition?), 1099 work - whatever

either way ... they're paid by the job/per task


they're like an employee, only paid by sub

I kinda want my cake and eat it too ...

I can give them the freedom of a sub ... however, if they don't want to show up ... well, i won't give em work.

I've worked for other builders who did this with me.




Thing is ... it crosses into a grey area.

If I can do it and still stay in the black and white ... I'm up for it


Getting into the grey (and the IRS) ... well, I won't sleep so well at nights. And at that point, the cons outweigh the pros.



Advice

Charles Bagley

I would talk to a CPA and see what he says or advises. As I remember, you can't have much control over them as far as setting regular work hours, providing company vehicle, benefits, ect. Maybe hire someone through a temp agency. They handle all the paperwork as the person actually works for them. You just kinda sub them out and when you don't need them tell the temp agency you don't need them anymore. Don't know if you will find anyone in your line of work going through a temp agency work though. If you just need grunt work you might find someone.

CB

Bob Kovacs

There's a whole list of items that the IRS uses to determine whether someone is an "employee" or a "sub"- you should download that list and check them for yourself.

Basically, if you're telling him when to show up, how to dress, how to do the job, etc (the things you do to an employee), he's not a "sub". You also can't provide him with more than a certain percentage of his work for the year, so unless this is a part-time gig for your guy, he's an "employee".

So, if you want the benefits of an employee, and want to sleep at night, just do the right thing and hire the guy as a full-fledged employee. It's likely not going to cost you any more anyway, because if the guy has 1/2 a brain he'll charge you more as a "sub" than he would as an employee because he'll need to cover his tax liability, insurance, etc. If he's not bright enough to realize all that is going to cost him money, do you really want him as an employee anyway???

Bob

realpurty2

Dirt here's a rule of thumb to consider...

When you want to "buy" a finished portion of the project- he's a sub
When you need help to complete a project- he's an employee

Like Bob said, the IRS website has an entire area showing the difference.

If you want to be legal, you can not have any control over the sub beyond setting the scope of work he's expected to perform. He sets the price, the hours he will work, the time to completion, the materials used and how he will get it done. It's up to you then to decide if he's offering something you want to pay for.

Other than additional paperwork, a sub doesn't save you that much money in the long run IF he's a legitimate sub who provides his own insurance. If he doesn't, you have to pay for it under your policies.

You have to provide your insurance company with proof of all sub's insurance or else it's billed to you.

In your case, I'd strongly suggest hiring one helper for now. In the pool business, any subcontractor would likely be competition since there aren't many who specialize in just installing one specific part of a pool.

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

dirt diggler

well ... I guess there's the black and white way ... and there's the grey way.

I plan on living a while, lol ... I like money, but there's a certain point where (we all) reach a "comfort" level. I'd rather do everything the right way, and come out smellin like a rose.

or at least a guy with long lasting deoderant.



I definitely do not want some hourly slack.


For what I do, I could do very well with a right hand man and a strong pool of subs.

I've got the subs --- just need the right hand man




someone suggested hiring temp/labor agency guys.

Believe it or not ... I've got a VERY GOOD local temp agency. These guys are great. I've had maybe ONE problematic worker come from them. And honestly, I think that one problematic guy was just a little overworked and needed a break.



thing is, even my "in-house" tasks are pretty specialized. So specialized that there are not subcontractors to even fill those "slots." Not rocket science stuff --- hard to explain though.


Heck, some days I just need someone to go clean the truck, organize the storage shed, pick up materials (that can't be delivered for whatever reason), drop by someone's place for punchout/service/warranty work, etc.

Ed the Roofer

The test for common law employment

Employee or independent contractor
The list that follows gives 20 factors or "tests" used by the IRS when determining whether a person is an employee or an independent contractor.
The question of "who controls the details?" appears to be the primary basis on which the determination is made.
No single factor or small group of factors can be taken as conclusive evidence of the presence or absence of control. To determine a workers' status, all the factors must be evaluated. The weight given to the individual factors is not equal, and some factors may not apply to certain occupations.
No one factor is sufficient to determine status without consideration of the others. Although many of these factors are open to interpretation as they are written, the language used here is taken exactly from IRS documents. (IRS Publication 937, Employment Taxes and Information Returns, p. 4.)
Because final determination is made on a case-by-case basis, often in a court of law, it is very difficult to know in advance how a ruling would be made on any specific employer/contractor.
Following these factors is an examination of the four service provider categories:
1) employees
2) independent contractors
3) statutory non-employees
4) statutory employees.

1. Instructions
   An employee must comply with instructions about when, where and how to work. Even if no instructions are given, the control factor is present if the employer has the right to control how the work results are achieved.
2. Training
   An employee may be trained to perform services in a particular manner. Independent contractors ordinarily use their own methods and receive no training from the purchasers of their services.
3. Integration
   An employee's services are usually integrated into the business operations because the services are important to the success or continuation of the business. This shows that the employee is subject to direction and control.
4. Services rendered personally
   An employee renders services personally. This shows that the employer is interested in the methods as well as the results.
5. Hiring assistants
   An employee works for an employer who hires, supervises and pays workers. An independent contractor can hire, supervise and pay assistants under a contract that requires him or her to provide materials and labor and to be responsible only for the result.
6. Continuing relationship
   An employee has a continuing relationship with an employer. A continuing relationship may exist even if work is performed at recurring although irregular intervals.
7. Set hours of work
   An employee usually has set hours of work established by an employer. An independent contractor generally can set his or her own work hours.
8. Full-time required
   An employee may be required to work or be available full-time. This indicates control by the employer. An independent contractor can work when and for whom he chooses.
9. Work done on premises
   An employee usually works on the premises of an employer, or works on a route or at a location designated by an employer.
10. Order or sequence set
    An employee may be required to perform services in the order or sequence set by an employer. This shows that the employee is subject to direction and control.
11. Reports
    An employee may be required to submit reports to an employer. This shows that the employer maintains a degree of control.
12. Payments
    An employee is paid by the hour, week or month. An independent contractor is usually paid by the job or on a straight commission.
13. Expenses
    An employee's business and travel expenses are generally paid by an employer. This shows that the employee is subject to regulation and control.
14. Tools and materials
    An employee is normally furnished significant tools, materials and other equipment by an employer.
15. Investment
    An independent contractor has a significant investment in the facilities he or she uses in performing services for someone else.
16. Profit or loss
    An independent contractor can make a profit or suffer a loss.
17. Works for more than one person or firm
    An independent contractor is generally free to provide his or her services to two or more unrelated persons or firms at the same time.
18. Offers services to the general public
    An independent contractor makes his or her services available to the general public.
19. Right to fire
    An employee can be fired by an employer. An independent contractor cannot be fired so long as he or she produces a result that meets the specifications of the contract.
20. Right to quit
    An employee can quit his or her job without at any time incurring liability. An independent contractor usually agrees to complete a specific job and is responsible for its satisfactory completion, or is legally obligated to make good for failure to complete it.

In a recent journal article in the CPA Journal. April 1992. pp. 48-55.) Alan R. Sumutka, CPA and Associate Professor of Accounting, shared his conclusions that the 20 factors are not weighted equally.
After analyzing a number of court cases, Sumutka concluded that eight of the factors are primary and can provide "very persuasive evidence of employee status" (p. 48).
What is important is whether the service provider or the service recipient has the right to control the details of the work to be performed.
Evidence of employee status is provided if the service recipient has the right to:

• Require compliance with significant instructions (IRS Factor 1).
• Set the hours of work (IRS Factor 7).
• Set the order or sequence of services to be performed (IRS Factor 10).
• Discharge the service provider (IRS Factor 19).
• Hire, pay and supervise assistants as the nature of the work requires (IRS Factor 5).

Or if the service provider:

• Has no ability to realize a profit or loss (IRS Factor 16).
• Has no investment in significant tools, materials and other equipment when such items are necessary to accomplish the task and are usually provided by the service provider (IRS Factor 14).
• Has no significant investment in facilities when they are necessary to accomplish the task and they are customarily provided by the service provider (IRS Factor 15).

If the answer to any of these factors is "yes," the IRS would probably make a case for an employee relationship between the service provider and the service recipient. If the answer to these eight factors is "no," and the answer to any of the remaining IRS factors is "yes," there is still cause for concern.

Ed the Roofer

Here is the link to the entire text of the article including workbooks and which criteria are weighed more heavily as the deciding factor.

http://muextension.missouri.edu/expl...ubs/ncr546.htm

Ed

Ed the Roofer

Worksheet 1, Factor evaluation questionnaire, gives the primary and secondary factors sorted and reworded according to Sumutka's determination of impact.
Worksheet 1.
Factor evaluation questionnaire
Primary factors:YesNo1. Does the service recipient have the right to require compliance with significant instructions? 2. Does the service recipient have the right to set the hours of work? 3. Does the service recipient have the right to set the order or sequence of services to be performed? 4. Does the service recipient have the right to discharge the service provider? 5. Does the service recipient have the right to hire, pay, and supervise assistants as the nature of the work requires? 6. Does the service provider have no ability to realize a profit or loss? 7. Does the service provider have no investment in significant tools, materials, and other equipment when such items are necessary to accomplish the task and are customarily provided by the service provider? 8. Does the service provider have no significant investment in facilities when they are necessary to accomplish the task and they are customarily provided? Secondary factors: YesNo9. Does the service recipient train the service provider? 10. Does the service recipient have the right to require oral or written reports? 11. Does the service recipient pay by the hour, week or month? 12. Does the service recipient pay for business and/or travel expenses? 13. Does the service recipient have the right to require personal service? 14. Does the service provider usually not work for more than one firm at a time? 15. Does the service provider maintain a continuing relationship with the service recipient? 16. Does the service provider maintain a continuing relationship with the service recipient? 17. Does the service provider devote substantially full time to the service recipient? 18. Does the service provider have the right to terminate the relationship at any time without incurring liability? 19. Is the service provider integrated into the service recipient's business? 20. Does the service provider not make his or her services available to the public on a regular and consistent basis? Notes

• Yes answers suggest employee status. No answers suggest independent contractor status.
• More weight should be given to the first eight questions than the last twelve.
• If you answered "yes" to any of these 20 questions, proceed with caution. Consult an accountant or tax lawyer who is familiar with the problems raised by hiring individuals as independent contractors.

Service provider categories

Ed the Roofer

Service provider categories

1. Employees (officially referred to as Common Law Employees)
Under common law rules, every individual who performs services subject to the will and control of an employer, as to both what must be done and how it must be done, is an employee.
It does not matter that the employer allows the employee discretion and freedom of action, so long as the employer has the legal right to control both the methods and the result of the services.
Two usual characteristics of an employer/employee relationship are that the employer has the right to discharge the employee and the employer supplies tools and a place to work. If you have an employer/employee relationship, it makes no difference how it is described. It does not matter if the employee is called an employee, partner, co-adventurer, agent or independent contractor.
It does not matter how the payments are measured, how they are made, or what they are called. Nor does it matter whether the individual is employed full-time or part-time.
For employment tax purposes, no distinction is made between classes of employees. Superintendents, managers and other supervisory personnel are all employees. An officer of a corporation is generally an employee, but a director is not.
An officer who performs no services or performs only minor services, and neither receives nor is entitled to receive any pay, is not considered an employee.
For example, any worker who comes to your apparel manufacturing plant at the times you specify, signs in when he arrives, works at the station you assign, takes a lunch break at a time that you designate, and leaves at a prearranged time, is an employee.
Similarly, a person who comes to your place of business, picks up garment pieces and instructions on how to put them together, takes them home to sew, brings them back by a specified time, and is paid only for the acceptable finished products, is either an employee or a statutory employee (see employment category 4 below).
2. Independent contractors (sometimes referred to as Consultants)
People such as lawyers, contractors, subcontractors, public stenographers, auctioneers, and others who follow an independent trade, business or profession in which they offer their services to the general public, are generally not employees.
However, whether such people are employees or independent contractors depends on the facts in each case.
The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the employer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not the means and methods of accomplishing that result.
Independent contractors are hired to accomplish a particular job. The relationship between the hiring party and the independent contractor is contractual.
There is a written, verbal or implied contract between the two parties about what will be done and how much that service is worth. The contractor does the job, is paid and moves on to the next job under the next contract.
Independent contractors must give you a correct identification number (an employer identification number or a social security number).
If they do not, you may have to withhold, as income tax, 20 percent of the amount you pay the independent contractor.
For example, plumbers are usually independent contractors. They are in business for themselves.
When a house is being built, the builder specifies the type of plumbing to be installed and the parties agree upon a price.
The plumber does the work and submits a bill, which must be paid if the work is up to standard. If the work is not up to standard, the plumber must do it over without additional compensation.
If the plumber does not complete the work or the work is inadequate, the builder may sue the plumber for damages. The builder cannot, however, direct the step-by-step or day-to-day progress of the job or decide which days and hours the plumber will work.
The builder cannot hire additional people to help the plumber or insist that the plumber do the actual work.
The builder cannot fire the plumber in mid-job. The plumber cannot decide one day that he doesn't want to do this job and simply quit.
Both are bound by a contract that says the work must be done and the plumber must be paid. The builder does not have to hire that plumber ever again, even if the work was perfectly adequate.
If the builder does want to hire the plumber again, they negotiate a new contract for the new job.
At the end of the year, the builder files a Form 1099 with the Internal Revenue Service. This form tells the IRS how much the builder paid the plumber during that year for work that was done.
Meanwhile, the plumber must file quarterly estimated income reports with the IRS and an end-of-the-year tax return.
The plumber must pay self-employment tax on the amount of income earned. The IRS may compare the amount reported by the builder with the amount reported by the plumber.
A person who makes or trims garments in a home-based business and brings them to your consignment store to sell is an independent contractor.
You do not tell that manufacturer what to make or how many or when. You do not determine who will do the actual work. You do not set the selling price or take the risk of loss if the items do not sell. You may contract with the maker so that you both agree about how long the items will remain in your consignment store, what percentage will go to you (the seller), and whether you may mark down the items if they do not sell by a designated time.
3. Statutory employees
Statutory employees are similar to independent contractors, except that they are subject to FICA.
The employer must withhold Social Security Tax on these workers and pay the employer's share, but does not withhold federal or state income tax.
The employer is not responsible for unemployment taxes, nor does he/she provide benefits to a statutory employee.
The statutory employee is responsible for filing quarterly estimated income reports and for paying taxes on income.
Workers in the following four categories may be statutory employees: (IRS Publication 937, Employment Taxes and Information Returns.)

1. A driver who distributes meat products, vegetable products, fruit products, bakery products or beverages (other than milk), or picks up and delivers laundry or dry cleaning if the driver is your agent or is paid on commission.
2. A full-time life insurance sales agent whose principal business activity is selling life insurance or annuity contracts, or both, primarily for one life insurance company.
3. An individual who works at home on materials or goods that you supply and that must be returned to you or to a person you name (if you also furnish specifications for the work to be done).
4. A full-time traveling or city salesperson who works on your behalf and turns in orders to you from wholesalers, retailers, contractors, or operators of hotels, restaurants, or other similar establishments. The goods must be merchandise for resale or supplies for use in the buyer's business operation.

Whether an individual worker from one of these categories is actually a statutory employee depends on how he or she stands with regard to the test for common law employment, which is described below.
According to IRS publication 937, "Individuals within any of the above four (statutory employee) categories are employees subject to social security and Medicare taxes if:" (IRS Publication 937, Employment Taxes and Information Returns.)

• The service contract states or implies that almost all of the services are to be performed personally by them.
• The service contract is the arrangement under which the work is performed. The contract may be oral or written. Note: To qualify as a statutory employee, the arrangement must be that the employee will personally do the work. As soon as an agreement is reached between the employer and the employee that the work will be shared by someone else, the employee no longer may be classified as a statutory employee.
• The individual has little or no investment in the equipment and property used to perform the services (other than an investment in transportation facilities).

There is no precise definition of "little or no investment in the equipment and property used to perform the services."
The IRS has provided four factors (Internal Revenue Manual, Part IV — Audit and Investigation, Exhibit 4640-2 (May 6, 1986). Cited in Wright, Kenneth K., "Determining Employee Status." 1991. Unpublished manuscript.) to help determine whether the investment is substantial enough to disqualify the worker from the category of statutory employee:

1. What is the value of the worker's investment compared to total investment?
2. Are the facilities furnished essential to the work or for the personal convenience of the worker?
3. Are the facilities being purchased or leased from the person for whom the services are performed?
4. Are the facilities furnished by the worker considerably more extensive than those usually furnished by other workers performing comparable services.

Facilities include such items as office furniture and fixtures, premises, tools and machinery, but they do not include such items as education, training and experience, "nor do they include such tools, instruments, equipment or clothing as are commonly or frequently provided by employees with respect to their employment." (Wright Kenneth K., "Determining Employee Status." 1991. Unpublished manuscript.)
The IRS has also ruled that tools and equipment are not considered a substantial investment "if they may be used for purposes not related to the particular services being performed" on the job. (Wright Kenneth K., "Determining Employee Status." 1991. Unpublished manuscript.)
Therefore a typewriter furnished by a contract typist and a sewing machine furnished by a "merchant tailor" are not considered substantial investments in facilities.

• The services are performed on a continuing basis. A continuing relationship is one that is regular or frequent. Regular, part-time work and recurring seasonal employment are considered continuing.
• A long-term, single-job transaction is not generally considered a continuing relationship.

Workers who do not meet these three requirements are either common law employees (category 1, above) or independent contractors (category 2, above).
4. Statutory non-employees
Workers in two categories are defined as statutory non-employees: Direct sellers and licensed real estate agents. The IRS defines direct sellers as follows: (IRS Publication 911, Tax Information for Direct Sellers. 1992.)
Direct sellers sell consumer products to others on a person-to-person basis, usually working out of their own homes.
The products they sell are intended only for personal use, not for resale. They may sell door-to-door, through the sales party plan, or by appointment in someone else's home.
Their customers may be coworkers, friends, relatives or neighbors. They may sell on a regular basis or only occasionally. They may sell as full-time work or as a sideline to a regular job.
A direct seller usually signs up with a particular company to sell its product line.
The company may use one of many titles for its direct sellers, including: consultant, coordinator, dealer, demonstrator, designer, director, distributor and direct distributor, instructor, manager or supervisor, representative or sales representative.
Direct sellers are treated as self-employed for federal income tax and employment tax purposes if they meet the following two criteria: (IRS Publication 937, Employment Taxes and Information Returns.)

1. Substantially all payments for their services as direct sellers or real estate agents are directly related to sales or other output, rather than to the number of hours worked.
2. Their services are performed under a written contract providing that they will not be treated as employees for federal tax purposes.

You are a direct seller only if you are in business for yourself. Three kinds of employment-related business taxes may apply to direct sellers: Income tax, self-employment tax and employment taxes.
You must file quarterly estimated income reports and pay estimated tax (IRS Form 1040-ES); and annual income tax (IRS Form 1040, Schedule C).
Self-employment tax is the social security and Medicare tax for those who work for themselves.
If you have employees, you will probably be required to pay employment taxes. These taxes include federal income tax, social security and medicare (FICA) taxes, and federal unemployment tax (FUTA).
For more information about these taxes, see IRS Publication 911 on Tax Information for Direct Sellers, IRS Publication 533 on self-employment tax, and IRS Publications 937 and 15 on employment taxes.
Industrial homeworkers

Many people use the term "homeworker" to describe where they do their work.
They may actually fall under any of the four categories of service providers described above. However, the IRS defines homeworker or Industrial Homeworker as "any employee employed or suffered or permitted to perform industrial homework for an employer."
Therefore, for tax purposes, the term homeworker applies only to people who work at home for someone else.
The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, as amended, places many restrictions on the type of work that may be done as homework, who may be hired as a homeworker, and requires strict record keeping, including certification, by both the homeworker and the employer. For more information about restrictions on industrial homeworkers, see IRS Publication 1026.
By definition, industrial homeworkers are automatically either 1) employees or 2) statutory employees (see definitions above). For both employees and statutory employees, the employer hires an individual and assumes that they personally will be doing the work.
However, if two or more individuals form a partnership, and that partnership is hired to perform a service or make a product, the partners are independent contractors because there can be no presumption that the work will be done solely by one or another member of the partnership.
It is important, however, that the partners do work together as a business. It is not sufficient to say that several people are partners if they contract separately, and work individually.
Reclassification protection

The hiring company faces severe penalties if the IRS and/or the courts determine that service providers being treated as independent contractors should be reclassified as employees.
However, a part of the tax law called the "safe haven" provision of Section 520 of the Revenue Act of 1978 provides some protection against liability for employment taxes, penalties and interest.
To qualify for this protection, three conditions must be met:

1. A reasonable basis for classifying an employee as an independent contractor.
2. Consistent non-employee treatment for the individual worker and all similar workers.
3. The filing of all required information returns.

Ed the Roofer

Final determination

Whether these provisions are met will be determined, of course, by the IRS and/or the courts, which means that no individual company is guaranteed safe even if it appears that they have satisfied the requirements. Further explanations of the three provisions follow.
1. Reasonable basis for classification
Tax law (Section 530 (2)) Section 530 (2) provides several standards that constitute safe havens in determining reasonable basis. These are: (Oden, Debra Hall. "Independent Contractor: A Legitimate Classification with Reclassification Protection." Taxes. May 1991. pp. 319-325.)

• Precedence
  A service recipient has a reasonable basis for non-employee treatment if the classification decision is based on judicial precedent, published rulings, technical advice, or a letter ruling or determination letter to the taxpayer.
• Prior audit
  If, in a past audit individuals classified as independent contractors are found to be similar in position to the individuals under question, that is considered a reasonable basis for classification.
• Industry practice
  If long-recognized practice in the industry classifies a worker as an independent contractor, then the employer is considered to have a reasonable basis for treating the worker in the same manner.
• Other
  The employer may attempt to demonstrate some other reasonable basis for not treating the individual as an employee.

2. Consistent treatment requirement
Tax law (Section 530 (a)(1)(A).) requires that the employer not treat the service provider as an employee for any time period after December 31, 1977.
If, while the company is under investigation, it anticipates a negative ruling from the IRS and withholds employment taxes or files current employment tax returns, by doing so it has treated the Service Provider as an employee and has violated this "consistent treatment" requirement.
In addition, "If all substantially similar workers are treated as independent contractors, then all the workers are covered under the safe-haven protection. If, however, some workers holding substantially similar positions are treated as employees, then none of the workers is covered under the safe-haven provisions." (Oden, Debra Hall. "Independent Contractor: A Legitimate Classification with Reclassification Protection." Taxes. May 1991. pp. 319-325.)
3. Return filing requirement
The third requirement for safe haven protection is that the taxpayer must have filed all required federal tax returns and that the employee status used on those returns must have been independent contractor. If the worker has failed to file self-employment tax returns, that failure may disqualify the company from protection under these safe haven provisions of the federal tax law.
In addition, the employer must have filed Form 1099-Misc. to report fees, commissions or other payments made to independent contractors who are either sole proprietors or partnerships, on payment totalling $600 or more in a calendar year. If the employer has filed a W-2, Wage and Tax Statement for any individual, then that individual has been treated as an employee and the employer would not be able to rely on the safe haven provisions of this section.
Summary

The courts and the IRS have held that "what you call it" does not affect what it really is. Giving a worker the title "independent contractor" makes no difference in the ruling if the worker is in a situation that fits the definition of employee or statutory employee. The same is true for written contracts. If the worker appears to be dependent upon the company, a contract stating that he or she is an independent contractor will not deter the IRS from ruling that that worker is really an employee.
It is important that each service recipient and service provider study the guidelines carefully and/or consult a qualified accountant or tax attorney before deciding that the independent contractor classification is appropriate for your use. The IRS suggests that service recipients and service providers use Form SS-8: Determination of Employee Work Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding (included in this publication).
You may wish to complete this form for your own purposes and/or you may wish to submit it to the IRS for an official ruling. Note that it is not anonymous and becomes a part of IRS records.
Precautions and other considerations

For service recipients
Several suggestions have been offered by various tax accountants and certified public accountants for steps companies can take to strengthen their claims that service providers are independent contractors.
These suggestions are not guaranteed to protect you against an IRS claim that the worker is actually an employee.
The suggestions that follow were adapted from an article by Roth and Biebl. (Roth, Randall W. and Biebl, Andrew R. "How to Avoid Getting Caught in the IRS Crackdown." Journal of Accountancy. May 1991. pp. 35-36, 39.)

mahlere

the link would have worked fine

dirt diggler

Good God Ed!!!


Please DO NOT send me an invoice for all of that

Ed the Roofer

It didn't seem quite as long when I was pasting it.

The reason I did though, is because I have seen many members not follow the links posted at times and continue to pursue the same questions, and this was very relevant information.

Enough said, it was way too long.

Ed

Gordo

Dirt,

It sounds like you will want a statutory employee.....according to the novel posted by Ed.

__________________
Looks like some pros were here.

dirt diggler

doesn't matter ... my employee would be retiring by the time i got done reading that

ed, just knockin on you - that was funny (and I've written longer statements) -

thanks for the info!!!

Gordo

That is good info, Ed. Thanks for researching it.

__________________
Looks like some pros were here.

thom

One more thing,

If your state requires a license, anyone you put on a 1099 must be properly licensed.

Mike Finley

That's the best way I have ever seen it put.

dougchips

Dirt, I pay 99% of my subs a by the piece price. Here is the job, this is what it pays, so you want it and can you complete it within 10-14 days. They can take the job or decline it. As far as the IRS goes, you can fill out a form and send it to them and they can decide if you are describing a sub or employee. I spent a ton of time on this issue last year, for some reason most of the impute I got here was wrong. "My friends brother in laws sister uncles dentist said" type of stuff.

POOLMANinCT

dirt
if your on the fence about hiring a man, go to a temp agency

they take care or taxes insurance comp etc. its is a straight labor expense for you.

be warned they are usually degenarates & you must stay on site w/ them. though ive had some good in the past.

but when you just need extra hands & feet it works out