How To Get Out Of This One

ATH

We just finished up a bath remodel. They have a list of relatively minor complaints and have said they want to get someone else to handle those issues. To keep a long story short, they don't want us to come back and we don't want to come back. They've paid the lion's share of the contract, but still owe us a bit more than $500.

They sent an e-mail asking for an adjustment to the final bill for all the remaining issues and said they won't pay anything more until we return their key.

Under normal circumstances, we would tell them that they owed the full amount of the bill and if they had issues, we'd come back to take care of them. However, in this case, we certainly don't want to handle it that way. We've lost too much sleep over this project. Even though we did not make what we projected on this job, at this point, we'd be willing to just walk away and have no further dealings with them.

How do you folks handle situations like this? Do you get them to sign something? If so, what?

Thanks for you insights and experiences. This is, by far, the worst customer we've ever had and we have to sit down over some scotch and decide how we could have handled them better (or at least identified them before they became our problem).

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Wayne
Around the House
http://www.MyPowerCouple.com

genecarp

what is the amount that they need to spend to correct there issues?

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rbsremodeling

Have them sign a waiver saying the contractor has fullfil his obligation and the job is completed etc. that you will not be liable for any warranty issues caused by someone else completing work on your project etc.

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silvertree

I had an old timer tell me, if you can buy ($500) your way out of a pile of sh*t, its money well spent. He was right.

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Vote for Pedro
Kitchen, bath, St Paul remodeling
Minneapolis Remodel Blog
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j_builder

They sent an e-mail asking for an adjustment to the final bill for all the remaining issues and said they won't pay anything more until we return their key.


I agree with RBSremodeler... just sign off on all work performed to date and negotiate money owed. Try to maintain your professionalism cause you never know when or if they might reconsider you again or have other folks ask (who did this work). Buy all means get that key back ASAP.

Jerry
JLP Construction

plazaman

could it really be that bad that they need to call someone else to finish it? Or they just full of it because they dont want to pay? If they are offering to pay the remainder owed, minus the 500, then maybe id do it just for the sake of getting my money. sometime we call have to take s h i t in the business.

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masterk

only talk to them through e-mail that way you can save it and have evidence.
I would offer to do the few repairs, if they say no great let them know that the warrenty is void when someone else alters your work.
Return there key and invoice them for the full amount owed.
If they say they don't owe you, you have it in a e-mail that they refused to let you correct the problems.
People like this need to be disposed of !

Tscarborough

Being an asshole should not get you a discount on the contracted amount. Do it by the book, certified mail, we will do punch, etc, but the price is the price. Anything less means they win.

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joasis

So what are the minor issues?

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Greg Di

I dealt with a guy like this. Everything's fine until the last payment, then the sky is falling.

I sniffed something fishy, so my first response through him was from my attorney. I cut straight to the chase. All of sudden, now it's not that bad, blah blah, blah. When we (me and my plumber) went back the last time to address the most stupid things I've ever seen, he started playing games. I yelled to my plumber across the house to pack up his stuff because everyone's leaving right now and the HO started to lose it. My plumber started to lose it, and frankly, I was starting to lose it. It was the ugliest display of three way shouting I've ever seen. Finally, the guy's mother walks in and I pulled her aside (it was actually her house) and told her that her son was being a prick (not in those terms) and that we did not have to put up with his antics. She yelled at him in Italian and he started writing checks.


You are never getting a referral from these types of people and I wouldn't want to work for anyone this type would lead me to on principal.

Play hardball to win. When you sense that people might be problematic before you start, the best bet is to front load the payment schedule so that you can walk away from all or part of the final payment. I've had to do this exactly twice. I did not have to walk away early, but it's nice to know you can if you have to. It almost makes it more pleasant to know that in the back of your mind.

Apparently, they do this as SOP in the mold remediation business. The first two payments are actually the price of the job. They know they will never get the third (final) payment because it's impossible to get a zero mold reading in a house that had a mold problem. If they do get a zero reading, it's gravy, but they don't expect it. Nice business, huh?

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Virg

if an employee wasnt working out then id have to fire him/her. whats wrong with a homeowner firing a contractor if they are not happy with the work. if i hired a painter to paint on one of my jobs and i saw drip marks, i wouldnt let it get any further. minor yes but a sign of no thanx to me. maybe they saw "drip marks". not all homeowners are sheep

send_it_all

It's called a contract. That means that one person is "contractually" obligated to do the work outlined in the contract, and that the other person is "contractually" obligated to pay for said work. Neither party can break the contract without just cause....which is usually outlined in the....you guessed it...contract.

MacRoadie

A summons.

AtlanticWBConst

I think this is the best advice given.

The reason why is because of this:

It sounds like things have been going south, that this is not just a complaint that has popped up at the final payment time. You already have the majority of your money. This was not a good match.
The fact of the matter is, that when you are in the business long enough, you WILL unfortunately make the mistake of working for, and dealing with, clients that are just....impossible to please. They are out there. (and there's a name for them..... begins with an "a", ends with a "hole")...

When I have had such an unfortunate experience, I simply ask myself: Do I want the money that I feel they owe us? Answer: Yes.

Do I want a War over it, especially when it is only $500.00, and I have the ability to walk away from a major head-ache? Answer: Heck - no!

The fact of the matter is, we all have enough headaches to deal with in this business. There are enough problems, or minor issues that come up. To make an issue of such a situation and push the $500.00, is going to cost you alot more than $500.00 worth of your nerves, your sleep, and your general peace of mind.

My advice is as rbs gave; Get your signatures, be professional, and walk, er, no...RUN!

Move onto other jobs and live and learn. This profession is just as much about making mistakes and learning from them, as it is about hitting "home-run" projects with happy clients.

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- Build Well -

DavidC

I would only add to have your attorney draft the waiver, I think it is actually called a settlement and release.

Once upon a time there was a customer that presented his contractor with a punch list and held the last check. Once the punchlist was complete he presented his contractor with a longer punchlist. After completing the 2nd punchlist and recieving yet another longer list the irrate contractor called upon his attorney.

His attorney produced a beautiful document that renegotiated the termination of the contract, released the contractor from any further liability and voided all warranties concerning this job. In return the customer had to write a settlement check (a substantial savings on the contract) and sign off, thereby leaving the contractor in relative peace.

If you are going to terminate without finishing, get it in writing and protect yourself from future claims.

Good Luck
Dave

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AtlanticWBConst

Best advice part II.

It's worth having your attornny do this as suggested. if it comes back later, it could bite you in the A$$ for alot more....

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- Build Well -

Brock

Buyer's Remorse (that's what my wife calls it).

You didn't educate them from the get go. It used to happen to me from time to time. I have found that when folks decide to spend the money their expectations of you, your crew, your neatness, attitude, punctuality, ect. have much more impact on their overall satisfaction than the craftmanship of the job. I have found that this phenomenon only seems to happen with interior work for the most part however.

Anytime you do interior work you have to communicate to the homeowner as if they are a child. You have to go waaaaay overboard and tell them exactly what's going to happen, exactly when it's going to happen, exactly who is going to make it happen and you have to set up ton of progression payments. This is key. The purpose of the progression payments is to gauge their happiness level at several intervals throughout the project. A customer that has been involved like this will often let some minor imperfections slide, or at the very least, you will get the oppurtunity to make corrections more often during the course of the job. In other words, if you have 4 progression payments then you get four report cards. If you get an A on the first three repot cards then you know, and more importantly, your homeowner knows that you most likely will end up with an A on the end. And always have the final payment so low that you wouldn't even bat an eye at losing it, because some people are just clinically insane and unreasonable.

ATH

Thank you all for all of your (hard won) experience and wisdom.

Update:

We sent them their key and a "Settlement and Release," stating that they accepted the project "as is" and that there would be no warrantee on the work already completed. We got the signed document in the mail today, so we were able to escape this one with some of our sanity and shouldn't have to worry about a future claim that they had to pay thousands to "correct our mistakes."

We didn't make much money. Probably barely covered our costs. We're looking at it as a learning experience and evaluating what we might have done differently to change things before they went so far downhill.

Thank you, all, again.

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Wayne
Around the House
http://www.MyPowerCouple.com

PARA1

ATH, glad to hear you got that deal worked out. We're in a similar situation also, dealing with the fact that this job was a referal, dealing with a inexperienced GC and a idiot plumbing inspector who will never return my phonecalls. Not to mention the job was out of town. Well good luck with the next one. P.S.------WHAT KIND OF SCOTCH DO YOU RECCOMEND?

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DavidC

Glad to hear you've got it settled. What a relief it must be for you. The finacial outcome sucks but it is a valuable lesson.

Good Luck
Dave

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