How Do You Handle Bids

PETESVISIONS

when the H.O. takes your drawings and detailed quotes/estimates and shops around with them? I don't charge for estimates even though some can take hours of my time to do (time includes meeting with customers at their home/office- usually a few times, talking on the phone with them, creating detailed drawings- on paper as I'm not computer savy enough to do them on computer, and typing up detailed quotes regarding material and how the job will come together).

It seems here lately (the past 7 mos or so) that customers want the bid then never get back to me, or they point blank tell me they are going to take my stuff I gave them and shop around. And then this results in no jobs for me.

I would love to charge for my time and drawings for the bids but it's hard enough getting $40 an hr out of customers these days...I get the "oh I can get another guy who will only charge me $20 or $27 an hr" speech. The quotes are like comparing apples to oranges when it comes to materials and craftsmanship. Then when I find out how this low ball bidder does the job the H.O. calls me to complain about how unhappy they are with the hack's work but then still complain about the price I charge.

sage

First, welcome Pete.

Second, I can understand your frustration and your wanting to vent.
Maybe you should explore some of the old threads, lots of them talk to some of the issues that you are facing and have loads of great advice from all angles. Take what you can use, these guy's don't charge, YET.

Best of luck,

Neil

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-Lead from the front, or dont lead at all-

joasis

Item by item, here is how I do it. I rough out numbers, and this is a "rough estimate". Then, if the customer is interested, we work detailed numbers....I never let a customer see my notes, or plans, just rough sketches with no dimensions, and the price...there is no point in letting anyone use your numbers to beat you. When I draw home plans, they don't go to the customer in full size with numbers until we are in contract...and I state to them, I own the plan until then, if I draw it. If I am bidding on their plans, I don't expect to keep a set if another builder gets the job.

So in summation, try working rough numbers, and a "guestimate", and if the customer is serious, then detail.....why waste your time otherwise.

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Glasshousebltr

Early 90s, a developer needed a building contractor for a new sub division. I was suggested threw the day care chick ....don't even ask .... So I went to the meeting and it was a wife husband duo. She was cute, pretty eyes and very shapely. He was much older and jingled coin when walked. She was doing all the talking. "Your the man ....we're behind you ...blah blah blah. We'll call ya ya when we're ready to brake ground."

2 months go by, no call. I chalked it lost but I did a follow up anyhow. The wife's at there and tells me it's urgent that she meets with me ASAP......Oh it was urgent alright ....They were split up, so I banked her a few times ......Hey! .....I do what I can others!

The jest is, she was trying to steal the development in the divorce. I don't know how she figured I played into it but I get a call from her attorney wanting to meet with me ......Sure.

I park next to his small office, walk around the front of the truck, and hear two people going at it threw the half open, eye level window. When I get inside I find out it's his office and she's already there. You go girl! Ya Gotta love em.

Needless to say I took the job ....but not the project.

Now do all admit? ......I can pick em right out of a crowd.

I still can't figure out why this thread reminded me of that.

Bob

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Bob

dirt diggler

Pete ...

I think you may have answered your own question here.

so you're spending hours upon hours making these beautiful presentations and estimates --- only to have them say "well the other guy's charging $20/hr"

that's a qualifier right there ...

If they say that on your first meeting --- why bother with an estimate?? (sure ... you can call a bluff and do it anyways) --- but they've already given you an idea of their budget and expectations.

And they've shown you their "priority" --- it's the price that matters most to them

dirt diggler

Bob that was the most pointless drivel I've heard today


AND THE BEST STORY I'VE HEARD IN A WEEK


GO BOB, GO BOB IT'S YO BIRTHDAY, GO BOB

Glasshousebltr

Ah .......thank you .....I think.

Bob

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Bob

reveivl

I used to do that too, but got burned several times and quit. If you've been doing this long enough you should be able to 'ballpark' it and see their reaction. Ask them for their budget with the "there are various ways to do any job, each with a different level of products and quality and therefore price" line. Draw a quick sketch with no numbers. Don't even do the detailed drawings until they have paid you something for your time. If you have to do detailed plans just to figure out the cost they should be willing to buy them off you, that way if they do shop them around you've been paid for your time, if they are not willing to buy them then don't draw them, they are not serious yet, and you don't want them for a client.

Download Google sketchup and spend a couple of evenings getting practiced with it. It is very impressive to the ho's, but is really just a sketch not plans.

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From where does knowledge come? If you need to know what is in a box, you could ask someone (not reliable), you could pray, (not useful), you can consult with the scripture (not helpful) or you could open the box (science)

Mike Finley

I do a complete start to finish quote for everybody. (Try to anyways)

It's like casting for fish, the more casts you make the more fish you catch, if you just try to guess which of the fish are going to bite and only cast to them, in the long run I'm going to land more fish than you no matter what.

Problem you see right off the bat is how much time does it take to do all those wasted casts? That's up to me to figure out better and better ways of doing it and more efficient ways of doing it. All that will come over time.

Little secret - best thing I did was purchase a tablet PC, now the drawings, 3d renderings and all the good stuff stays with me, we sit down and they have hard copies of the budget and scope of work, but all the goodies are on the screen, and I can turn it and zoom in and out and they get to sit there and be very impressed and ooh and ah... but they don't get any of the goodies to pass on to somebody else.

The next guy behind me will come in and offer them a rough sketch and a ball park and all they will remember is the guy who had his sh!t together, even had it all done 3d on the computer. Who they gonna trust to do the job?

(least that's the way I hope it works with them)

Mike Finley

Unfortunately for you Pete, I suspect you are just another guy doing the same kind of work the next guy will do, nothing special about any of it so it gets reduced down to the lowest common denominator which is price.

If your customers don't believe there is any difference for what one guy will do for them for $60 or another guy will do for them for $20, why would they not go with the $20 guy? It sucks, but that is business.

Until you figure out how to give your customers a reason why they should pay more for what you will provide it unfortunately going to be more of the same.

Bob Kovacs

Pete-

Two things that have been mentioned here, but bear further emphasis:

- You need to qualify customers better. As Mike said, unless you've already established that this customer is going to buy on something other than price, you've either got to be the low-cost provider, or you've got to figure on not getting the job.

- You should NEVER be leaving any detailed quotes, drawings, samples, specs, or anything besides a lump sum number with a client until they sign on the dotted line. It's one thing to have to do all of the work for the client to get to the price, it's another to hand it to them- now you're doing every other contractor's work for them too.

Fix those two issues and you'll be good to go.

Bob

dayexco

when contacted to submit a quote, i ask them at what time they expect all the quotes to be submitted, that i'll be there at that time, and want to be there when they review them. if they don't like that idea, i pass on quoting the project.

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someday, i'll be as patient as Nick.

Tom M

I use templates that I made for a large variety of work that enable me to put a proffesional bid together with just a little editing. A great presentation looks the most serious no matter what. But I would never hand out a drawing or design layout for someone else to pass around. These drawings are one the things that sway a customer in your favor. They feel closer to whom ever is on the same page and if you "wow" them with a great idea that should close it itself. It is irrating enough most HO's have no plan in place prior to your meeting and you should -- by right --charge for design. But I always use the thought process if you charge--you are commited to a time frame in which to have something back and thorough cost sheet for them as well. Both of these are tough to accomplish unless. I usually dont charge cause I feel you lose some loop holes to adjust and fine tune your numbers along the way.

PETESVISIONS

actually Mike I design and build custom cabinetry, mantels, staircases

and trim. All of my work is shop based, then I deliver my work on site and install it. I mill my own hardwoods, make my own trim, stairparts etc. Customers call me because they know my high level of craftsmanship and being able to bring their vision to reality, because of this they need some sort of design plan from me. My work is not like the rest of the competition. when the homeowner sees my price they become sticker shocked because they try to compare substandard materials and craftsmanship to Home dumpo and Blowes and similar prefabbed stuff.

For example,just last week I gave a quote for a custom staircase to a homeowner who was also the GC (). I was highly recommended to him by another client. I drove two and one half hours to the site. He already priced prefabbed materials from a local supplier (he was also 14 lineal feet short of balustrade he thought he needed). But I told him the prefabbed stairparts that he was quoted weren't going to work and why. (I won't do or put my name on anything that is not right). He agreed to my necessary changes and upgrades right off the bat. He wanted a design and quote to make it happen since he needed to get it done. I gave him the quote and design along with a detailed scope of the work to be performed and he called two days later saying I was $2000 higher than the previous bidders and he can get a carpenter to do it for him for $20 dollars an hour. I said "best of luck to you." the homeowner understood the differences in what I was offering him. (I brought one of my Two step three rise oak displays with me to the meeting showing him the quality of joinery and design functionality.) the $20 dollar an hour guy was using stair treads not wide enough, quarter inch plywood risers, cheaper unpropotionate balustrade and unequal rises for the stair the thing won't even pass code. Guess homeowner can't justify the price to do it right.

joasis

I had a funny one today...I am going down the road, and I get a call from a guy I priced a building to more then 2 years ago...he asks if I remember him? Well, no...sorry...and he starts quoting numbers, and then I remembered...no problem...but, he wants to know if the price is still good if he agrees to sing the contract next week! Bet you guys guessed the answer.

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Mike Finley

Pete, thanks for the details. From what you wrote it's a real easy fix. Until you develop a reputation that proceeds you it's real simple.

You're a bass fisherman, in order to catch bass you need to fish where the bass are. Right now you've got your bait over the side of the boat and you are kind of trolling, and your bait is kind of generic and you're getting all kinds of trash fish hitting your bait, testing it, taking a few nibbles and stealing it sometimes, you need to think like a bass fisherman, you need to start casting your bait out into the habitat that the bass hang out in, you need to use specific bait that bass hit on and other trash fish won't even sniff because from one look they can tell that what you got they won't like.

You know what I mean?

You need to start going after your customers, instead of the other way around. Figure out who your ideal customers are and go after them. The way you market yourself, the things you advertise in and the way your advertising reads all presents an image of you and will attract a certain type of customer. For example when we advertise in service directories we get smaller jobs, and more price conscious customers, when we advertise in the yellow pages we get a lot of price shoppers, when we put door hangers on million dollar homes - we get customers with bigger budgets where price isn't that big of an issue, we get customers who want quality, choices, hand holding and customer service.

You sound like a great craftsman, maybe it's time to move to where the sun shines and make a lot of money?

Mike Finley

I bet you told him since everything is cheaper now you could knock 20% off?

PETESVISIONS

for me, I live in Michigan and the economy is horrible right now. seems like everybody's losing or lost their job in the construction industry and the remodeling market is now saturated with people that think they are finished custom carpenters like former autoworkers , drug reps and cardiologists. They work for peanuts lots of undercutting. People in the trades I knew moved out of state looking for work. Burger King, here I come!

Mike you right though, apparently customers in the market I'm catering to don't see the diffence in my work, even after detailed visuals and explanations. I'm trying to tap into a higher market that seems to be unattainable, because the really big spenders are holding onto their cash right now, waiting to see what's going to happen with the economy.

Thank you, everyone for your feedback, ideas and not charging me for it

PETESVISIONS

I'd love to move to a warmer place with no snow!But I can't take my kids out of the environment they're in right now. I can always dream though!

POOLMANinCT

wow, i think i may take a page from your book, thanks!