HO Cancels Check For Final Payment

roof-lover

I believe in florida that a notice to owner followed with a notice to lein is to be filed within 45 days following completion.

Us talking about this particular in florida doesn't help this person.
The point remains that he does have time.
He does need to research his amount of time if he doesn't already know.
I think he already knows.

bwalley

Per Florida Statute 713

The Notice To Owner must go out within 45 days of 1st furnishing of materials or labor.

The Lien must be recorded within 90 days of last furnishing.

If you are a Licensed Florida Contractor you should be aware of this.

BTW Unlicensed contractors have NO lien rights in Florida and any contract they enter into can not be enforced.

Leo G

So does this mean if your job takes 46 days you cannot file?

__________________
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Stone Mountain

As he was finishing his phone call to you, I would have been heading to his bank to certify the cheque.
I've had occasion to do that before. Most banks still want a signature for the stop payment, so you probably could have beaten him there.

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maceycon

Years ago. I had a sub do a concrete basement floor for me. He had worked for me in the past. I was on another job when he finished. He came over looking for a check. Like an idiot I paid him without looking at the finished job because I trusted him and I was in the middle of something. The next day I went to the job and the floor was a mess. I couldn't get in touch with him so I put a stop payment on the check.

We went to court and the judge said if you wrote the check you must have been happy with the work.
I had pictures showing an 1 1/2" dips in the floor, witnesses and the works. I lost. I had to hire someone else to come in and tear up the floor and do it over. I wouldn't think buyers remorse is going to be a good defense if you bring him to court.

bwalley

The dates can overlap.

meaning a sub files the NTO within the 45 days of first furnishing and a lien is filed within 90 days of last furnishing.

Say I do a job and a sub fTimely iles the NTO, does not get paid, he can file the Lien the next day, this can all take place within a very short period of time.

After the 45 days, the sub can not file the NTO, in this case they lost their lien rights, they do still have other remedies, just not lien rights.

After 90 days, the lien can not be filed, but you do not have to wait 90 days, again if you wait after 90 days, you lost your lien rights but still have other remedies.

roof-lover

I am a state certified Roofing contractor.

Oh, and i have filed and enforced and got the money on more than one occasion when i have NOT been a state certified roofing contractor.

You're kind of acting like an asshole.
excuse me for disagreeing with your assertion that he should first thing
file a lein right away without trying to work it out with the homeowner first. Yeah, thats great advice. Great service!

They'll really take him serious and respect him and pay him right away.
The goal is a happy customer and get the money.

YOU definitely would not be acheiving that.

bwalley

You are quoting wrong information about Florida lien laws, I corrected you so that other Florida contractors don't follow your wrong information.

Just because you have filed liens, does not mean they were done properly and anyone who knows lienlaws could challenge it, if you file an improper lien, you can be held liable for damages.

I am well aware that this guy is not in Florida.
I told the guy to start the procedure of filing liens so he does not allow the window of time to close on him.

If you are an unlicensed contractor you have no lien rights, you may have filed one and collected, but had the people been knowledgable of the Florida Lien laws, they could have had your lien thrown out and your case would have been dismissed, unlicensed contractors are also liable for triple damages and the court would not recognize an unlicensed contractor as an expert witness.

I have 2 certified contractors licenses and am working on my 3rd, I know Florida lien law very well, I will look up and post the part about unlicensed contractors having no lien rights for you.

bwalley

Unlicensed Contractors have NO lien rights, per Florida Statute.


Notwithstanding any other provision of this part, no lien shall exist in favor of any contractor, subcontractor, or sub-subcontractor who is unlicensed as provided in s. 489.128 or s. 489.532.

mikec

Not sure about other states, or what would happen in court, but... The Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection is very clear about contractors, their contracts, and what needs to be in them. This from the DCP book:

Home Improvement Contract
Requirements in Connecticut
The days of the “gentleman’s handshake” are gone.
The law demands written contracts and that means
more than a quick estimate and your signature.
Here’s what Connecticut law requires of a home
improvement contract:
• It must be in writing, including all changes and modifications.
• It must include your Contractor Registration (HIC) number.
• It must include four dates: the date the contract is signed, the date the
work will begin, the date by which the work will be completed, and the
date by which the homeowner may cancel the transaction.
• It must include a Notice of the Customer’s Right to Cancel within three
business days after signing the contract. The Notice must be attached to
and made part of the contract, and must be in duplicate. See Appendix B
for an example.
• The notice contained in the contract must be near the customer’s
signature and in substantially the following form:
“You the buyer may cancel this transaction at any time prior to
midnight on the third business day after the date of this
transaction. See the attached notice of cancellation for an
explanation of this right.”
NOTE: Saturday is a legal business day in Connecticut.
• Both you and your customer must sign and date the contract.
• You must give your customer a completed copy of the contract to keep.
Why must it be in writing and dated?
For your own protection, be sure the contract includes everything you will
and will not perform. For example, who is responsible for cleaning up debris
left in the yard from the construction work? If you are remodeling a kitchen,
is the cost of the appliances included in the contract price?
Take the time to explain it all to your customer — then write it all out. A
large percentage of consumer complaints stems from nonspecific contracts,
which lead to disagreements.
Be a troubleshooter. Think ahead to what you’ll need to do (or hire someone
else to do) if you find a supporting wall has almost rotted away, or that the
seasoned oak the customer requested is in short supply, or you hit a rock
ledge. Then, explain your back-up plans in writing.
-4-
If the contract needs to be changed in any way after the original signing, be
sure you and your customer both sign for all change orders, and that all
changes include additional charges and changes to the completion date, if any.
Put everything in writing!
While the law requires that all change orders be in writing, contractors often
run into situations where authorization from homeowners for changes must be
obtained while the contractor is on the job, but the customer is at work or
elsewhere. This contingency should be provided for in the original contract so
that the homeowner is fully informed of the potential for these situations.
Follow up any such verbal authorizations with signed change orders as soon as
possible to comply with the law.
Remember to always include these four key dates!
As noted earlier, the law requires four dates to be included
in the home improvement contract, as follows:
1) Transaction Date
The transaction date, i.e., the date on which the
contractor and consumer sign the contract, must be
noted on the contract itself as well as on both copies
of the “notice of cancellation” form attached to the
contract.
2) Start Date
The contract must include the start date for the project. Many consumer
complaints arise from the contractor’s failure to show up on time. To avoid
misunderstandings about the start date, the contractor should explain to the
homeowner that work on the project may include tasks such as applying for
permits, ordering materials (that may have to be returned and reordered if
they arrive damaged), and scheduling subcontractors — prior to actually
appearing at the job site.
If more than thirty days go by from the start date in the contract and you have
not performed a substantial amount of work, the customer can request a
refund of his or her money. Further, if you fail to return the client’s money
within ten days of his or her request, you are subject to criminal action. The
law is silent as to the meaning of substantial amount of the contracted work.
It is, therefore, prudent to plan your projects carefully and to include
alternative plans of action, should problems arise that are beyond your
control.
-5-
3) Completion Date
The contract must include a completion date for the project. Many consumer
complaints arise from the contractor’s failure to finish work on time or to stick
with a job. Maintaining good communication with a customer will help avoid
many complaints.
Many contractors have overlapping jobs. While the framing is going up on one
customer’s addition, you may be completing the finish work on another’s
kitchen. If you run into trouble with the framing, the finish work just isn’t
going to get completed. In the meantime, customers get angry because they
don’t know what is going on!
4) Notice of Cancellation
Both copies of the “notice of cancellation” should include the date by which
the homeowner may cancel the transaction (i.e., no later than midnight of the
third business day after the date of the transaction). Saturday is a business day
in Connecticut.
Finally, the contract must be entered into by a registered contractor or
salesperson, and contain the name and address of the contractor. Both “notice
of cancellation” forms must also contain the contractor’s (i.e., seller’s) name
and address.

Brock

Interesting. My current customer is a transplant from Conneticut. He asked me if I was required to provide him with a contract. I said no but I don't work without one. You don't mention what the punishment is if you get caught working without one. it may be one of those"uninforced laws" like leaving your car running in the driveway with your keys in it.

BTW My customer also told me that in Conneticut you have to have a 36" deep footing on a detached building but no rebar is required in the footing. Surely you guys up there are putting rebar in your footings aren't you?

AtlanticWBConst

We are referred to as "Contractors".

But so few believe in excercising the concept.....

__________________
- Build Well -

mikec

I've seen footings with no rebar(my guy puts it in).
I don't know what the punishment is, but the state does a sting every year, and nets some unregistered guys, and also gets some guys for inproper contracts, and yes these guys are arrested. I know of a guy who did 30 days for no reg, inproper contract,and no permit. His client had a friend who was a state trooper. The guy is a hack, and wasn't showing up after taking a big deposit, and doing next to nothing on the job.
I think its good the state does this, but the state also recomends to HO's to give no deposits,wich is BS. They tell the HO to pay upon completetion.

Brock

That's too bad, but you could do what I do when a H/O doesn't want to pay up front. I write it up with 5 or 6 payments due over the 3 week period. The first payment is large and due after I pull and attach the permit. Then I stay "ahead" of them with less than 5% on the end. I don't even mind doing it this way because you have five or 6 oppurtunities to ask their checkbook if it is happy with the work instead of at the end.

mikec

Yes, I do pretty much the same thing. The no down payment is not the law, just recommended. I've never had a client bitch about my payement schedule.

Stevelsc8721

My head hurts from all the comments, my first input would be to lien the house and advise him that his credit will be greatly affected by a lien on it. I would have cashed the check anyway and waited for it to clear or bounce. If it does protest it at the bank.

If there is communication still and it is a small amount ask him with his wife there ,what they think is a fair balance due for the final phase of services performed? Let them speak first and bite your tongue not to speak up until they are done. Sometimes its a stupid thing like a light or paint or something stupid. If it is state if I do that for you then we agree on the final balance of ? is Ok!

Never do anything without an agreement. I have for years recorded conversations with clients and tell them I'm doing it so I don't forget anything that was discussed. I also record and take pictures of any big projects we perform.

I was back in the day sued for $ 1,800,000.00 for constructing a job not to the blueprint that we designed for the home owner. In court on tape the homeowner stated that this is the new line my wife and I drew for the redesigning of the proposed wall among-est other changes. This trial lasted 18 days and what saved my ass was pictures, video, signed contract etc.

The insurance company still paid them monies because they wanted to end the trail that was still ongoing.

Always get it in writing or record conversations so you don't miss anything

Good luck

Brock

What about emails? Are they admissable in court. Most of my changes come via emails.

dubz

There are a lot of GC's I know that don't work with a contract in the northeast corner. My cabinet guy who has 4 full time employees told me today he's never used one. They don't actively look for contractors working without a contract, there is just no recourse if the homeowner decides he doesn't feel like paying.

My local lumber yard did a dinner and had a lawyer come in to go over the contract laws about 10 years ago. For about a grand I think it was, you could make an appointment where he explained it in more detail and gave you a floppy disk of 4-5 different style contracts and change orders which i did. I don't think I've used them more than a couple times but with all the time on my hands lately I've been learning computer stuff and plan to get that type of thing squared away.

Frost line is 42" here and we follow the national building code which doesn't say you need to put bar in a footing, but most plans call for it.

rsss396375

The preliminary lien process has nothing to do with screwing the lumber yard. In CA, we receive pre-lien notices and the HO is also sent a certified letter. If they don't pay, or you don't pay, then the lumber company may lien their property, since their materials are attached to the improvment of that property. If you want to pay the lumber yard, thats up to you, but you loose that additional leverage.
You sound like a butt head who pops off too much.

Brock

It's because I'm your Daddy.