HO Cancels Check For Final Payment

Ed the Roofer

Sorry.

I just read your other post that was submitted while I was typing.

I hope you get your money without too much heart-ache and learn from this.

Learn this one thing at least.

The people who can not make a decision are the ones that you have to dot you I's and cross your T's with, the most. Don't let even the most trivial items be neglected in writing.

Ed

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oldfrt

Slap me again ED,It'll sink in.
Like I said I usually have written contracts,I just got a little too secure with this HO.NEVER AGAIN!!!

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Leo G

Deposit the check. It will come back canceled. It will give you leverage in court. Why would he write you a check and then cancel it. Sounds sneaky to me. And as everyone has said. Always have a signed and dated contract.

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Ed the Roofer

No disrespect intended, but now you will do the self slapping for a while, won't you?

I do hope you saw my follow up post though.

Ed

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nlgutters

Not sure i understand?
How long after he gave you the check did he decide to cancel it?


To answer your original question i believe if you wanted to take it to the next level real quick you can just take it to a sheriff and let them know his check bounced.


But i don't think you are telling us everything here. You say no contract beacuse you didn't have time to write one?

You say you are within 2k of the original price. I believe if that was the case you would of knocked off the 2k pretty quick.

Was their anything in writing at your "progress report" about the cost? did he sign it?

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Leo G

I thought about the bounced thing. He can take the check to the Sheriff if they had insufficient funds, it is a crime to write a check if you have no money to back it up. But if you cancel the check through the bank it might be a different story. Not sure.

Also, if you gave him a rough estimate or a ballpark figure and you came within 5% of your guestimate, I would think you did pretty good. I wouldn't surrender any money you should be getting. 5% can almost be all your profit on a tight job.

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oldfrt

No signature on his part,but I gave him a hard copy of the report and he said it looked good.It had the up to date costs and a final cost on it.Like I said,the final was lower than my report,so he should have been happy.

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thom

There is no such thing as a verbal agreement in real estate, it just doesn't exist. You could try suing for unjust enrichment or some other basis but you will have a hard time with that.

Doing this job without a contract was really dumb. You already know that. The best you can hope for now is to mitigate your damages.

wellbuilthome

Im SW of you in NY I think you are on the money with your price . I would be at 56gs finished with block foundation ,vinyl siding , half the windows ,no wood floor ,sheet rock ceiling , outlets to code , 6 hi hats and one out side light .hot water heat . 2 A/C ducks and plans . I would try to talk to him you have given him a more then fair price for the job . I think he will pay up he would be crazy not to . 20,000 mat job cost 42,000 seems cheep. most of the time if i double mat & subs it will be close to total job costs . John

Double-A

Contact your attorney and ask him what your options are. I'm not an attorney but I'm under the impression from experience that stopping payment on a check for services already rendered is theft and subject to litigation.

Call your attorney and find out what your options are. You might settle this whole thing peaceably simply by sending him a letter explaining that his options have run out as far as not paying you, now its a civil matter if he would like to pursue it in court.

Be nice, be surprised and be confused. Take notes on every phone call and personal conversation you have with him. If it comes to court, these might prove invaluable.

Good luck.

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confluencebuild

Poor guy is gettin a beatin, sure he could have had a contract, that's kinda water under the bridge now.

I'd suggest trying to work with the home owner.

Maybe suggest he get a third party opinion of the cost for the work. Have another contractor neither of you know give an estimate for the work done.

Ed the Roofer

That is naive and totally assinine.

No F'n way am I going to allow someone who doesn't know my knowledge level, skill level, overhead and desired profit level to spew out what they think the job should have been done for.

Don't ever fall into that trap. No-Siree, Uh-Uh!!!

Might as well contact Craigs List and see if they will work for beer.

Ed

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joasis

You finished his addition for $105 a sq/ft, and you have documentation showing materials sent there, job site photos, the whole works, correct? You will have his returned check? All you need is a lawyer and a court date, and do not forget to file a lien IMMEDIATELY!

Now, that said, contracts are very important, but failure to write one is not, repeat, not the end of the road. You are not "buying" real estate here, you did work for a customer, and in my state, a verbal contract is binding, given that nothing is "unreasonable"......you built on his home for about the market rate of new construction......this is your second job for this customer, and you have documents. You will prevail.

Nice looking work, BTW.

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bwalley

This was not a reale estate contract.

It is the contractor who was damaged here, not the homeowner.

What damages does the contractor have to mitigate?

You should learn what these legal terms mean before carelessly throwing them around.

bwalley

oldfrt did the work, he was paid, HO stopped payment on check, if HO wanted a bid from a 3rd party, he should have done that BEFORE he hired his to contractor.

Dragging another contractor into is not a good idea, obviously the HO thinks he can beat this guy out of his money, oldfrt needs to file the lien papers right away, he should also contact the state attorney to see if the HO broke any laws, in Florida the HO would have some legal issues with the state for pulling that crap.

jaros bros.

A contractor should never allow exceptions. I know that for small jobs and added on work at the end, I sometimes let slip. I have never been burned before, but I know that time is coming, contract or no contract. Hearing a story like this just encourages me to never allow exceptions.

Josh Jaros

SelfContract

If this case goes to court, two questions of facts arise:

1. Do you still have copy of check? If yes, that is a presumption of verbal agreement that he will pay you that amount upon completion on that date, it's good for you, you still have first 50% chance to substitute the missing written contract (as court required proofs of work agreement). However, if he (was smart enough) and will prevent you to cash or hold on to that check and you stupidly gave back that check already (without HONESTLY trying to deposit first) and didn't make a copy of that check (with his signature) as proofs, you are SCREWED 100% sir!

2. If he happily admitted that he & you had already another verbal agreement in the past (garage for example) that he also paid you by check, and also you still have that ordered check copy (of the last garage work) from your bank (deposit), then that will give you another second 50% proof remaining to your winning chances possible. This is called "legal presumption of similar or past verbal agreements" also. Judges/laywers will have to search for past won cases on similar facts & legal presumption of historical facts to prove it to him. This will be used as your counter-argument against his reasons/assertions that you & him DON'T have any verbal contracts.

Consult a couple lawyers for free consulations or work on contigency basis (if any). Good luck!

confluencebuild

Ed.

If it so naive to get an opinion from another contractor, why are we all writing and responding to these posts?

I don't know you from a hole in the wall.

Look, oldfrt has somethings working against him, some for him. This is not an open and shut case. If the home owner is intentionally trying to rip him off he's going to have to pursue the case through litigation and will be costly and time consuming. If the home owner thinks he got burned cause a big garage cost more than a little addition, then a logical explanation may go a long way and avoid all the litigation.

Tell the home owner to choose a different builder, of course you should talk to him to make sure he's not a moron. Suggest the builder split the cost to pay the builder(less than attorney's fees for darn sure) for his time to do a take-off on the work and break it down. Sounds like oldfrt did good work at a fair price, this will be reflected in the other take-off.
If not, you're in the same place you are now.

Bill Z

Why does everyone want to run to court? Do you like having someone shove a 2x4 up your dark side? Read the legal threads on this forum. Run away from court, not to it! The only winners are the attorneys.

My best friend is an attorney, we play golf, eat out with the wives, work on non-profit committees, serve on boards together. But I run as far and fast from him professionally as I can. I do not want to do business with any attorney.

Instead, if there's a problem, RUN TOWARD IT AS FAST AS YOU POSSIBLE CAN. Tackle it, find out why there's a problem and make it right. Stop the problem while it is small, before third parties start giving bad advice, and while its cheap to fix.

If a roof leaks adjacent to a room we build on, we know that it's the customers old roof that leaks, not ours. But we can install 7 squares of roofing for a few hundred bucks in less than a day. Let's say the customer gets huffy and threatening. If I run to an attorney it'll end up costing me $3,000. and take 18 months to settle. Life is too short, I don't need the stress.

Back to the OP, the homeowner didn't say he wouldn't pay, he said he wants to talk. I suggest we all take personal responsibility for our problems and work them out ourselves. The homeowner just wants to be resold, he needs a reminder and some documentation that he selected higher quality materials. He needs to be congratulated on his good taste and the increased value in his home. Fix it quick before it gets out of control!

StairJunkie

oldfrt, very nice looking addition you did there. your pricing does not seem unreasonable. sounds like a difficult customer which is becoming more common in this economic environment. what is the latest update to the situation?

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