*grumble* Why Do People Think This Is Ok To Ask??

Patty

Hey Kristina,

Having been selling for the last 22 years, the best thing I can tell you is that with age came wisdom (at least, for me, it did. ) My Father died in 1984, and he left behind a very lucrative manufacturing company. I was 23 years old, at the time. I blew off law school and jumped head first into a business I knew very little about. I was on a proving ground; young, female, BLONDE , and thrown to the lions! I was involved in some VERY large business deals on a global level. But, no matter how big or how small the deal, I always wanted to clinch that deal because I figured that to get this far into it and to lose it was a TOTAL waste of my time. So the question, I always asked, quite humbly, was, "Gentlemen, what is it that YOU want? (Let them answer.) Then, I would address their issues, overcome any valid objections and "re-work" my sales pitch, usually with very little change needed, and I would close by saying, "If I can meet your requests, are you ready to come aboard and sign TODAY?" Kristina, 9 out of 10, I'd walk out with a signed contract and, as my Father would say, laugh all the way to the bank!

Now, what does this mean to you?

GET THE SALE!!! WORK WITH THE CUSTOMER!!!

All the customer wants is a quality job done by a builder he/she can trust, and at the same time, for a decent price. DONE!

NOW GO GET THE SALE!!! (Oh, did I mention that, already?)

Oh, I never burn a bridge.... unless the guy is trying to undermine my dignity or integrity. Then, I blow him off! And, for the record, I come with references on that one!

Melissa

Were you honestly asking a question or just wanting to complain? It sound like you're getting very deffensive to the replies you've been given.

Kristina

*snort*

I could've said it the way you heard it, but I wouldn't necessarily SAY that to the customer. I'd word it much more eloquently for them.

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Kristina

All the customer wants is a quality job done by a builder he/she can trust, and at the same time, for a decent price. DONE!

NOW GO GET THE SALE!!! (Oh, did I mention that, already?)

Oh, I never burn a bridge.... unless the guy is trying to undermine my dignity or integrity. Then, I blow him off! And, for the record, I come with references on that one!

I absolutely believe this. I did not and would not be the bitch that I am to someone like him. He is geniunely interested and was just asking what is apparently a standard question. We answered him *kindly* and explained how we work. That's all.

Did anybody notice the time stamp on this post?? It wasn't even 4a and I hadn't had enough coffee or sleep to think rationally. I was just reacting. Dashed out a pissy email, then thought better of it and decided to ask you guys what you thought. My husband later "edited" my email to take out the more bitchy parts and sent it on.

I gave you the short version of what I wanted to say, which could come across much more "tersely" than the way you guys put it. Like I said, I agree with you guys, mostly, I think.


Were you honestly asking a question or just wanting to complain? It sound like you're getting very deffensive to the replies you've been given.

Yes and yes but mostly, I just wanted to complain. The venting prevented me from doing something totally stupid and the feedback assisted me in doing something LESS stupid. Thanks!

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eastend

this thread is begging the question- then what is a "price"? How does one arrive at a figure to quote a client? Sure you figure in your fixed expenses, and your variables,your cost of doing business, your labor, your materials etc, etc, but you also figure in how much "profit" you want your company to make on the job. You can do that by a pre-determined formula, or you can take a guess.

But in either case, isn't that "profit" a number that you hope to make? And couldn't that change depending on circumstances?

If demand for your work goes way up, isn't it a normal business practice to raise your price, even though it doesn't cost you more, so that you can take advantage of the demand and reap greater rewards?

And if business is slow, don't we have an option of lowering our profit expectation to keep busy?

My point is that a "best price" isn't always; and that it really is a function of what you percieve your needs to be; and that really is something that can change in response to any unique situation.

Dave Mac

you just made my night , i cant wait to throw that on the next person who ask me to lower my price, it has just enough humor in it, and yet remain's classy, as well as slightly insulting, i love it

Mike Finley

Unfortunately that comment tells me that no matter how much you have said you get it, it all comes back that you still aren't getting it.

There are a lot of insights into how your perceptions are messing with your ability to do business in that statement, I don't even know where to start - maybe with the concept that you believe estimating has something to do with giving somebody your best price? that there is even any such thing as a concept of your best price? that a customer has crossed some invisible line if he dares question anything you are saying? or that you still are saying "that bugs me", says you haven't heard anything about separating business from your ego... you keep saying you get it or that is what you said in the first place, but unfortunately it doesn't sound like you are getting any of it yet.

You can't work on the answers to the questions if you aren't even aware of what the questions are. I'll still say it: You can't change the way the customers you are getting in front of think and act, and I'll add :it's about as productive as farting in a whirl wind.

Kristina

Whatever, Mike. Whether I understand the concept of separating business from ego has nothing to do with whether or not it still bugs me.

Because "it's the way it works" doesn't mean I can't think that "the way it works" sucks monkey balls? Does it really matter what I *think* or does it matter what I *do*?

Seriously, your condescending tone is really "bugging me", while that doesn't mean I don't get the value of what you're saying, it CAN still bug me and it DOES mean that I "get it".

Of course I can't change how they act, I can change how we respond to them. I can change what I *say* to them, but I can't change what I *think* about them.

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kgphoto

Kristina,

I think you are getting it. At least most of it. One thing you may have missed, is the concepts of; We can only respond to what you put here and It is not what you say that matters, but how you say it.

You asked the question as to what is the difference between a lessor quality item at a price lower than the first choice and a lower priced item? Maybe you weren't aware this was what you were doing, but you did.

An item that can perform the same function for a lower price is a less expensive item.

An inferior product does an inferior job, for a price worth its value. It just also happens to cost less than the best choice item, but may not be really less expensive, especially if you include all the potential downsides and rework.

Many responded to your words and part of your response was the classic: "I know you understand what you think I said, it is just that I am not sure you realize what I said is not what I meant."

So please don't think badly of us for forming conclusions based on the misinformation you supply.

Finally, I think you now have an understanding as to the ambiguity of "best price". We all put a contingency factor in our bids. Some are larger than others. If you don't ask, you don't get. So it is a good idea to ask. Yes this doens't happen as much in Doctors offices, but surprise you would get better prices and or service if you did.

There is a mystical connotation surrounding doctors that contractors don't have. I suspect it is because almost anyone would feel comfortable smacking a few nails with a hammer, but most would be uncomfortable sticking their hand in the open abdomen of a friend.

I am glad to hear that you got the job and hope you have a good time with that relationship. Let us know how it goes, if you don't mind?

Mike Finley

That's the first real thing you have said in the 10,000 words or so you have danced all over the place with this simple issue.

Thinking I'm being condescending to you once again points to the root of the problem. The problem isn't your customers - instead it might be your attitude.

The customers you have in front of you are the ones you have to deal with, for the 10th time - you can't change them.

Either change your marketing methods and get some customers who better mesh with your personality; learn to deal with and make lots of money with the ones you hate so much; get out of the business; or I guess there is always the 4th choice which is to do nothing, keep bitching about everybody and keep wondering why the bills keep piling up.

They why bother posting it here? Just to get somebody to pat your back and agree with you to tell you everybody sucks in the world? Don't you have real world friends to do that for you?

If you seem to think every customer you get in front of is a dirt-bag, back-stabbing loser, the problem is pretty clear the customers aren't the problem.


KG is right on the money with those statements.

Mike Finley

As for Doctors - ask the next doctor you meet if he has ever had a patient call up and ask to negotiate the bill? He's going to tell you it happens every single day. It's quite a common practice in the medical field. My Brother-in-law has 3 kids and hasn't paid a doctors bill in full in 20 years.

Kristina

I think you are getting it. At least most of it. One thing you may have missed, is the concepts of; We can only respond to what you put here and It is not what you say that matters, but how you say it.

Oh I know. I'm not as eloquent *here* as I am with customers/potential customers. I've got limited resources and patience and I don't use much of either here.

You asked the question as to what is the difference between a lessor quality item at a price lower than the first choice and a lower priced item? Maybe you weren't aware this was what you were doing, but you did.

Oh no, I'm WELL aware of the difference.

An item that can perform the same function for a lower price is a less expensive item.

An inferior product does an inferior job, for a price worth its value. It just also happens to cost less than the best choice item, but may not be really less expensive, especially if you include all the potential downsides and rework.

I did say "lessor" but I didn't specify "lower quality" or "lower price". There aren't many products that you compare apples to apples, it's usually apples to oranges on some level. Like you said, at some point, they WILL pay the same price down the road. A product that provides the same service but at less cost HAS to have a down side. Usually in how long that product will provide the exact same service is the difference in cost.

Many responded to your words and part of your response was the classic: "I know you understand what you think I said, it is just that I am not sure you realize what I said is not what I meant."

So please don't think badly of us for forming conclusions based on the misinformation you supply.

I don't think badly. I was just clarifying because obviously I wasn't properly communicating what I meant. I totally believe this to be true because like I said, I don't waste what limited resources I have on detailed explanations on this board. I was hoping that since most of you are in the same realm of business, you would understand the "gist" of what I was saying. Apparently, it's much easier to assume I am an idiot, than that I am paraphrasing thoughts. I'm guilty of presuming people understand my train of thought. It's not misinformation, it's information that is generalized and I simply have to be more specific.

Finally, I think you now have an understanding as to the ambiguity of "best price". We all put a contingency factor in our bids. Some are larger than others. If you don't ask, you don't get. So it is a good idea to ask. Yes this doens't happen as much in Doctors offices, but surprise you would get better prices and or service if you did.

I agree, there is apparently that ambiguity, but we don't ALL have to play the same game do we? I would just as soon not artificially inflate prices with the expectation that I will bargain DOWN to the price I originally wanted in the first place. I'm holding a tag sale today. I priced items for what I wanted and won't budge. People don't like it when they don't have the thrill of the chase I guess. I get this is some people's idea of a good time. I don't have the time or patience to go back and forth haggling over price.

So maybe I shouldn't be "bugged" that he asked. He was making an assumption that we work the way most contractor's work. It's not his fault. We just explained that it is not how we work and he understood.

Because some of you chose to work that way does not mean we *have* to work that way. What is standard practice might not be something we are comfortable with. Some people mark up, some people don't. It's a "YMMV" kind of thing. Your Mileage May Vary.

I retract any implication that I made that anyone who does chose to "bargain" is making it difficult for those who don't to do business.

I pretty much assume that everyone here is an inherently good , semi-inteligent person whether I agree with what they say or not. If something SOUNDS nasty, I assume it's not MEANT that way. It's a message board and I give people a lot of leeway. I guessed that the same would be thought about me.

It's really tiring to have to pick apart and explain every word of every statement I make because it hasn't been written "just so" and everyone breaks it down into the most miniscule part and bases my whole position on it. I apologize all the time for not being articulate or specific enough when I am obviously misunderstood.

If something I say SOUNDS stupid, please assume it's not MEANT to be. I will willingly admit when I don't know what I'm talking about at all, I don't need people to tell that to me.

To assume my business is going to fail, I will lose customers, money, my shirt because of a few sentences on a message board is pretty freakin' ballsy and I resent the implication.

I hate the standard cop out of "oh well, we can only base it on what you SAY". What I *type* and what I *say* are two completely different birds and I'd appreciate the courtesy of presumption of intelligence until I clearly prove otherwise as I provide for all of you guys.

Thankyouverymuch. Have a great day! I genuinely appreciate the feedback.

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Kristina

Thinking I'm being condescending to you once again points to the root of the problem. The problem isn't your customers - instead it might be your attitude.

I assure you, I am not the first or only one to think this, but that's ok. It's just who you are and doesn't subtract from what you have to say that is of value.


Either change your marketing methods and get some customers who better mesh with your personality; learn to deal with and make lots of money with the ones you hate so much; get out of the business; or I guess there is always the 4th choice which is to do nothing, keep bitching about everybody and keep wondering why the bills keep piling up.

Did I ever say I wouldn't? Nope, I just said I didn't like how it was done. Or is that not ok? I already admitted I was just bitching and venting or didn't you read that so many posts back?

They why bother posting it here? Just to get somebody to pat your back and agree with you to tell you everybody sucks in the world? Don't you have real world friends to do that for you?

Nope, no friends. We are swingers and our friends didn't like our lifestyle choice.


If you seem to think every customer you get in front of is a dirt-bag, back-stabbing loser, the problem is pretty clear the customers aren't the problem.

I don't think that at all. I think there is a misconception about contractors and it's frustrating that it doesn't seem to change and I'm disappointed that we have to play "games" in order to make a living. I'm not a game player by nature because I think it's better to be honest and straightforward.

And while we are "dancing around" things, Mike, perhaps rather than dance around the idea that you believe *I* am the problem with our business in 10,000 or so words you've already typed, you'd just come right out and say it.

It could very well be that we just aren't cut out for this. I don't know if we can sacrifice the things we believe in to make a dime, whether it's a good one or not. Telling me that this is just the way it is, is cool. That helps me. Telling me I'm bound for failure if I don't play the game is just being an asshole. You are assuming I am TRYING to play the game and failing rather than that I chose not to play the game. I think there is a difference.

It's lucrative to sell drugs to make money, some people are ok with the fact that it's against the law and do it anyway. Some people aren't ok with it and so they don't sell drugs and make less money doing legal work.

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Kristina

I never disagreed with that. I'm a nurse, I've worked for lots of Drs who gave group discounts or charged half to people who don't have insurance. It definately happens. Does that make it right? I have yet to determine that. You could go down the whole path of why insurance rates are so inflated, because Drs mark up so much for services to make up for the money they don't get from patients who have no insurance who they charge half for. Either way, the Drs aren't losing anything. Is it ethical for us to overcharge people who readily pay our prices to make up for those who bargain us down to a 1/3 of what we originally quoted?

It would just be so much simpler if it were black and white.

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Patty

Well, that got my attention!

Melissa

Kristina, I just think it's pretty ballsy of you to lash out at people who have taken the time to write a very descriptive and well thought out answers to your question. And none of them were making it sound like you're dumb. I think this defensiveness is coming from something else.

Glasshousebltr

(audio/music) Funky cold Kristina (audio/music)

Bob

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Bob

Patty

Bob's contribution: A little background music for your listening pleasure!

realpurty2

I agree completely with Mike and Melissa. If your here to learn or discuss trade issues then why expect everyone to read your mind and just know what your thinking? We've all made a bad post or two..sometimes three.. but to continuously seek controversy, it just gets old.

You stated from day one that you were new and made many post about how badly your business was going..lawsuits, customer complaints, not making enough to survive.. every one here jumped in and tried to give you valid suggestions to get on the right track but there seems to be a attitude and contridiction problem somewhere.

You don't have to follow any set of rules or conform to anyone's way of doing things but don't bitch and moan when your business isn't operating at it's maximum potential either.

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Woman in a Man's World.

Glasshousebltr

Chic fight!........some one have some mud!

Bob

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Bob