*grumble* Why Do People Think This Is Ok To Ask??

Kristina

We just quoted a basement job for a guy.

He said we are in his price range but then adds, "What is the very best price you can offer? "



What? Is this a TAG SALE?! Do I need to launch into my spiel about getting what you pay for?

I just told the guy that this IS the best we can offer without compromising the quality of the materials we use and that doing so simply isn't our policy. That if he is looking for the "cheapest" price, perhaps we aren't the builder for him.

I would love to be someone who could just say "eh, it's the nature of the business, don't sweat it" but it's PRINCIPLE!!

When your Dr tells you it will be 12k to remove your gallbladder, you don't say, "What is the very best price you can offer? "!!!

This just gets under my skin so much! The things I refuse to accept in life are things that are just WRONG.

When we accept things like people not honoring their contracts (both builders and homeowners) or that our time isn't as valuable as anyone else's by compromising our business practices to "get" a job ie. lowering a quoted price, that's when the whole thing goes to pot.

It is NOT ok for people to hurt children, it is NOT ok for men to beat their wives, it is NOT ok for adults to use violence as a form of conflict resolution. That is playground stuff and grownups aren't supposed to act like kids. Right???

I have to believe that there are some things in the world that are sacred and that is falling further and further away from us and it starts with this kind of crap, with compromising what WE believe in order to gain something. No amount of money is worth my self-respect. It's not an issue of pride, it's an issue of what's right and what's wrong.

Or am I wrong? Which I could be. It happens quite frequently.

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jmic

You simply tell him or her " This is my best price ", but because you're such a horses azz I'll take off another 5%. But the whole job gets paid inCASH! Now give me the deposit!

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Joe

eastend

of course, it's common to price a job and include a "fudge factor" which would mean the price quoted is not really the "best price". And it seems many HOs need to play the game, or do the dance , of price negotiation based on their conception that a contractor never quotes their real price first.( very possibly a misconception)

Btw, do you ever seek to get a car salesman "to do better?" Or seek a better price on anything that doesn't have a "retail price" Have you ever bought a house??

I don't think it's worth getting bent out of shape about.

I usually tell them - I'm the owner - I can do it for free, if I choose to- but why would I want to??- That always shuts them up!

Kristina

Hmmm good point.

I guess I don't understand the car and home bargaining either. Price is price, why quote higher than you really need? Why would the exact same car be less money for one person than the other? Because they have better bargaining skills? How is that fair?

I dunno. I'd be leary of a contractor who said "our price is x amount" but when challenged said, "ok, our price is now y amount'. Well what?? Were you trying to rip me off with the first quote?!?!

I like the cash discount idea. Is that even legal? I suppose it is, we have suppliers who do the same thing to us.

Interesting. Thanks for the input.

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hauoli63

Legal if you still report the cash as income!

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~~ Lisa ~~

www.chantillyplumbing.com

Mike Finley

When sales people I have managed would come to me in frustration with your scenario the answer was always the same - #1 put you ego away, separate yourself from the sale - don't get so personally involved - it's only business. #2 when you are asking for the sale and your customers asks anything along the lines of "What is the very best price you can offer? " don't get upset, instead jump for joy! That's a prime buying single. Lookers don't ask those questions, buyers do. Simply answer the question with a question along the lines of "What number to you have in mind?" - then shut up. Don't say a word and let him talk himself out. The very next question and the only thing you need to say after he tells you his price, no matter what it is or how ridiculous it is is simply "At a price close to that are you ready to sign the contract right now?"

This is simple sales 101. You now have a price and most importantly a commitment. You might not be at a price you can do the job at, but most importantly you have a customer ready to commit, now it's simply a matter or closing the deal. You might be suprised sometimes that the price he gives you is hardly a discount at all and you are more than willing to do the job at his "best price" - if not then it's simply time to go back a few steps and start again explaining why your company is worth doing business at the price you gave. Another percentage of customers will simply listen and sign your contract - telling you something along the lines of "I just wanted to make sure I was gettting a good deal" - a few more are going to be out of their minds with what they are expecting and a few more are going to be bumpable maybe much closer to what you origianlly told them it would take to accomplish their project - then it is just time to cut out some of the scope of work or change it a bit to fit their budget then say something along the lines of - "Okay, we are at your price - sign here" and shut up again.

You can't change your customers your advertising is putting you in front of, you can only change your advertising to bring in different customers or you can change how you are dealing with your customers. The most important thing is to separate your ego from the selling process - it's only business, this isn't a negotiation over your first born child. If every customer presentation brings out feelings that it is, then you need to deal with those issues even before these.

realpurty2

I'm intriqued... please elaborate.

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copusbuilder

If you lived in an area where there were only slabs you would not have these problems

I would think if you have plenty of work hold tight but if you need the job bend a little.
I have some core customers that always use this line on me.
I know they are going to do it and also know they are not putting the job out to bid.
I raise the price and let the barganing begin. They always end up paying more than what they would have if they did not play this game??
However they feel proud as a peacock cause they beat me down.
Of course I have to do the appropriate lip tightening and head shaking

But more importantly....I went in to have some spots removed from my face. The doctor sent me to a surgeon because they were in a fold on the nose?
I walked in and told them my insurance is only good if I am dying so would like to know what it was going to cost up front.
We started talking hospital but when I said 'I'll live with them" he offered the office....Hmmmm. Ended up talking thousands at first and got it down to $200 with the office visit.

I must admit I intentionally did this because I have always made the same comment as Kristina about doctors.
I guess they have it too!! Now the I.R.S.

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AkA Richard Cranium

ATS

I'm still new at this game too but I would agree, never take it personal. Why lose the sale by telling him you may not be the builder for him? He was probably not expecting you to actually lower your price anyway, maybe he was checking your integrity. I've always been told if price negotiations come up and the customer is really demanding a lower price tell them something like "no problem, instead of using plywood on the exterior walls we will use OSB, it's a little cheaper and that'll save you some money" or in my case " sure no problem, instead of using the more expensive Cutler Hammer Classic breaker panel, we'll substitute that with a Cutler Hammer BR style, they're just a step below the Classic and we can knock x number of dollars off the bill" of course then go on to explain the pros and cons of each option. So when it comes down to it, I'll say " we can work with you in regard to the quality of material, we of course, can not negotiate the quality of our workmanship, after all our reputation is on the line and I'm sure you can understand our policy on that". OR something to that effect. Come up with your own way of saying it, but never take offense. It makes you appear unprofessional imo.

realpurty2

'nuff said right there

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Patty

I'm a graduate of the Mike Finley School of Salesmanship! I couldn't have written a better response. He's 'right on'.

When I quote a job, I NEVER waiver on my price. My proposals take a lot of time and I try to offer the BEST price, for what they want to do,
right up front. I have always felt that your CREDIBILITY goes down the toilet if you hem and haw and end up dropping your price. What I WILL do, however, is offer a less costly product if price is REALLY the issue. Usually, offering them a choice is the best route to travel, and 90% of the time, they will choose the first proposal, anyway, cuz that's really the product they wanted in the first place.

Haggling over price is just the 'standard' in our country. People have been programmed to think that they have to negotiate or they are being 'taken' and will pay more than they should. I deal with this on a daily basis. It doesn't even phaze me anymore.

But, price is SELDOM the issue. Think about it, Kristina. If a homeowner has X dollars budgeted to have a job done, do you really think 5% over or under will be a deal breaker?

Just chaulk it up to 'culture'!

PipeGuy

IMO, I don't want to hear about someone's committment to quality, standard of workmanship, strict ahdherence to the 'code of the craftsman' etc. In fact, I'm likely to wonder why someone would feel compelled to tell me that. It tells me they're feeling defensive about their reputation and starts me thinking about why they'd feel that way. And besides, if I had questions about the abilities of a potential contractor the last thing in the world I'd rely on to resolve the questions is their testimony.

I also don't ever want to hear someone offer to use material of a 'lesser quality' to reduce the price. There's a big difference between using a difffernt material, that costs less, and one that is of 'lesser quality'.

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widco

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Melissa

Mike Finley should write a book! I like Patty's answer too.

Here's something to think about, what if he didn't make that comment and you never heard back from him at all. So you calll, and find out he hired someone, because they were just a bit cheaper. Wouldn't you have rather he tell you what he was thinking beforehand to give you the opportunity to come down on the price- if you wanted to?

ATS

This would be ONLY stated if price negotiations came up, not in a typical estimate. The point being integrity, the best price was quoted initially, if it's too high for their budget, here are the options to lower the price a little by offering them material choices. Consumers like choices, I always offer a few with any estimate I give and typically the customer will go with the better product after they are educated on the pros and cons of each. As I said Pipeguy, I'm new at this myself and still learning, but this is one thing that has served me well recently and thought I'd pass it on. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. But I will say I doubt very much that your attitude is representative of the average consumer, no offense. But we as contractors think a little different on subjects like this than someone who may get something done on their house once in 10 years or so. Every customer is different and you have to be able to read people, and find out what's important to them. Albeit, I deal with homeowners, not general contractors, so what works for me may not work for everyone.

Kristina

Originally Posted by ATS
, I'll say " we can work with you in regard to the quality of material, we of course, can not negotiate the quality of our workmanship, after all our reputation is on the line and I'm sure you can understand our policy on that".

Errrr isn't that what I said?

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realpurty2

Not the way we all read it... lol

You said "I just told the guy that this IS the best we can offer without compromising the quality of the materials we use and that doing so simply isn't our policy. That if he is looking for the "cheapest" price, perhaps we aren't the builder for him. "

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Kristina

Lookers don't ask those questions, buyers do.

Agreed.


This is simple sales 101.

Probably, but not all of us took the course so it isn't exactly something we are born knowing.

it's only business, this isn't a negotiation over your first born child. \

Good point.

If you lived in an area where there were only slabs you would not have these problems




Why lose the sale by telling him you may not be the builder for him? He was probably not expecting you to actually lower your price anyway, maybe he was checking your integrity. I've always been told if price negotiations come up and the customer is really demanding a lower price tell them something like "no problem, instead of using plywood on the exterior walls we will use OSB, it's a little cheaper and that'll save you some money" or in my case " sure no problem, instead of using the more expensive Cutler Hammer Classic breaker panel, we'll substitute that with a Cutler Hammer BR style, they're just a step below the Classic and we can knock x number of dollars off the bill" of course then go on to explain the pros and cons of each option. So when it comes down to it, I'll say " we can work with you in regard to the quality of material, we of course, can not negotiate the quality of our workmanship, after all our reputation is on the line and I'm sure you can understand our policy on that". OR something to that effect. Come up with your own way of saying it, but never take offense. It makes you appear unprofessional imo.

That's essentially what I was saying and what he had already told the guy. I wouldn't just say "oh we aren't the builder for you". If you are looking for cheap and don't care about the quality, we aren't the builder for you because we don't put our name on that. It's fact. Not because you won't chose us, but because we won't lower ourselves to that standard.


When I quote a job, I NEVER waiver on my price. My proposals take a lot of time and I try to offer the BEST price, for what they want to do,
right up front. I have always felt that your CREDIBILITY goes down the toilet if you hem and haw and end up dropping your price. What I WILL do, however, is offer a less costly product if price is REALLY the issue. Usually, offering them a choice is the best route to travel, and 90% of the time, they will choose the first proposal, anyway, cuz that's really the product they wanted in the first place.

That's exactly my position on it.

Haggling over price is just the 'standard' in our country. People have been programmed to think that they have to negotiate or they are being 'taken' and will pay more than they should. I deal with this on a daily basis. It doesn't even phaze me anymore.

I just haven't reached that point yet I guess. Doesn't make me an idiot, it just means I'm not jaded.

But, price is SELDOM the issue. Think about it, Kristina. If a homeowner has X dollars budgeted to have a job done, do you really think 5% over or under will be a deal breaker?

Nope. I agree. Which is why I won't lower my price. 5% isn't going to make them NOT go with me either, if they are chosing us for the right reasons.



IMO, I don't want to hear about someone's committment to quality, standard of workmanship, strict ahdherence to the 'code of the craftsman' etc. In fact, I'm likely to wonder why someone would feel compelled to tell me that. It tells me they're feeling defensive about their reputation and starts me thinking about why they'd feel that way.

Umm probably because they are consistently placed in a position of needing to defend their costs to people. By nature of the industry apparently.

And besides, if I had questions about the abilities of a potential contractor the last thing in the world I'd rely on to resolve the questions is their testimony.

Why not? We are getting a porch job based on his ability to testify to the customer. They even said, "you are more expensive than the other guy we had quote, but you make us feel better about you doing the work than he did". If you know what the heck you're talking about, I think that speaks volumes about your ability as a contractor, no?

I also don't ever want to hear someone offer to use material of a 'lesser quality' to reduce the price. There's a big difference between using a difffernt material, that costs less, and one that is of 'lesser quality'.

I don't get that at all. Then why chose a "more expensive" material if it's not a better material overall? If we could get the same quality for less, what dumbass contractor wouldn't opt for that?

....I bet you didn’t expect that to be such a loaded question, but I just felt the need to explore and explain my position. I can list a few of the things that were left out of the estimate and will be included at “no charge”: Pick up and deliver materials, shipping, clean up, bondo, sandpaper, primer/sealer, router bits, overhead & profit. These items would amount to 15-20% of the total so we can consider that the discount. I know there is the potential for a lot of work restoring portions of your hotel and would like the opportunity to be a part of it, but lower prices often indicate less time able to be spent on items, lower quality materials & workmanship, and ultimately work that would have to be re-done which is not my style.

Again, basically what I was saying, but I didn't want to go into as much detail.

Here's something to think about, what if he didn't make that comment and you never heard back from him at all. So you calll, and find out he hired someone, because they were just a bit cheaper. Wouldn't you have rather he tell you what he was thinking beforehand to give you the opportunity to come down on the price- if you wanted to?

Of course, I guess it's the assumption on his part that we WOULDN'T give him the best deal in the first place that bugs me. If you think your contractor would charge you more than necessary to do the work, why go with him at all?

This would be ONLY stated if price negotiations came up, not in a typical estimate. The point being integrity, the best price was quoted initially, if it's too high for their budget, here are the options to lower the price a little by offering them material choices. Consumers like choices, I always offer a few with any estimate I give and typically the customer will go with the better product after they are educated on the pros and cons of each.

Again, exactly the point I was trying to make with the customer.

I feel like sometimes I am saying, "yes, no, yes, yes, no, yes" all to the same thing. Thanks for your feedback. I *think* we are all roughly on the same page, though everyone said the same thing 100 different ways.

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Kristina

I've always been told if price negotiations come up and the customer is really demanding a lower price tell them something like "no problem, instead of using plywood on the exterior walls we will use OSB, it's a little cheaper and that'll save you some money" or in my case " sure no problem, instead of using the more expensive Cutler Hammer Classic breaker panel, we'll substitute that with a Cutler Hammer BR style, they're just a step below the Classic and we can knock x number of dollars off the bill" of course then go on to explain the pros and cons of each option. So when it comes down to it, I'll say " we can work with you in regard to the quality of material, we of course, can not negotiate the quality of our workmanship, after all our reputation is on the line and I'm sure you can understand our policy on that".


You said "I just told the guy that this IS the best we can offer without compromising the quality of the materials we use and that doing so simply isn't our policy. That if he is looking for the "cheapest" price, perhaps we aren't the builder for him. "

I guess I'm stupid. I don't see where I didn't say the same thing, just in less verbiage.

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realpurty2

Your not stupid by any means. With or without the extra verbage, when you stated that price could only be lowered by altering materials but then followed that by it simply wasn't your policy... I, and maybe others, assumed your policy was not to even discuss lowering it and if they wanted it lower, go find another builder. Kinda how I read it atleast.. I must be the stupid one.

"And besides, if I had questions about the abilities of a potential contractor the last thing in the world I'd rely on to resolve the questions is their testimony."

Sorry but if I had one of those fancy Bovine Matter meters, I'd sure post it after that comment.

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