Family Business, stay or don't? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

N.Schiffer · 11-03-2009, 02:14 PM

I hope this is in the correct section, and I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible, but can't guarantee anything because this is by far the hardest thing I've even thought about.

I re-wrote this because after reading my first post it came out the complete opposite to the way I wanted it to.

For the last 10 years I've been working for my father, I've went from a helper to being the backbone of the production at this company. Currently I'm responsible for ALL production, we let go of the welder last year, normal lay offs, but he never took him back on, so I got stuck doing both his job and my normal job, which is production of all the wood fabrication. His job, now mine, was production of all the metal gates, cutting and welding galvanized pipe. Not something I want any part in, the results are horrendous and I just watched my grandfather almost die from mesothelioma. None the less, I'm doing it anyway. I don't have much choice, only because if I don't get it done, it won't get done, there is no one else. To top if off the sales floor is also understaffed which means I'm helping out there also, generally I'm working three different jobs, and taking on a huge responsibility, to the point god forbid something happened and I couldn't work for say a month, I have NO clue what he'd do. That brings you to my whole point of this story.

This business is NOT what I want to do for a living, my father isn't happy in it, yet he wants my brother and I to run it. I understand it's a family business and it's been going for 45 years now, but I just can't bring myself to stay there. I've been swing a hammer and running a side business since I was 15, doing general carpentry and a lot of custom sheds. (search my threads) I went to high school for construction and now finishing my last year in college for a bachelors in construction management. I left his business before I had as much responsibility, and I was begged by him to come back, even though he knew how happy I was working for a construction company doing what I love. He went as far as telling the owner my mother didn't want me working for them anymore, which was a lie. To my dismay I went back to my fathers business.

The time is coming where I'll be out of school and want to follow my dream in building custom homes or just being in the construction industry. He knows it's coming but refuses to bring it up with me, he ordered business cards with my name on it, talks about how I'll be making more money when I get out of school. He even talked about expanding the business to doing sheds also, (my gig) when we are already understaffed and over worked. The business doesn't have benefits, where I could go somewhere else and have them, which would be another benefit to working in a field I like. My brother left of the same reason, and it turned into nothing but bad vibes between the two of them for a long time. Even though he worked there for only a fraction of the time I've been there.

I feel stuck, I don't want to leave and have our relationship dwindle and his business fail or take a hit because he will have NO one that will be willing to do ALL of the work I do for the amount I'm paid. Maybe two or three people, but not one. As for talking to my Dad about anything business related... it's impossible. He doesn't want to hear out what I have to say about different ways to save money or run the business. So do I leave and be happy and hope he'll survive and we can still be Dad and son, or do I suck it up, hate my job and not allow the business to take the hit?

Cliff notes:
-Worked for my father for the last 10 years
-Not happy about the way the business is being ran, putting too much work on each person here.
-Doesn't want to add any additional cost, aka employees
-I want to do my own thing, or at least work for someone else in the construction industry
-Not sure if I should stay to keep our relationship strong, and since I'm such a big part of the production in that business I could potentially be the cause of a huge loss
-Or do I leave to make myself happy in what I wake up to do everyday and let me and my father figure things out, and hope for the best?

SelfContract · 11-03-2009, 02:33 PM

Your choice, so pick a choice:

1. Walk away (quit),

2. Be your own boss (new/own company, expand his business, pursue other opportunities, etc.) , or

3. Hire somebody (delegate/train/manage others) & grow.

**genecarp** · 11-03-2009, 02:36 PM

Have you told him how you feel and what you are thinking?GMOD

N.Schiffer · 11-03-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfContract

Your choice, so pick a choice:

1. Walk away (quit),

2. Be your own boss (new/own company, expand his business, pursue other opportunities, etc.) , or

3. Hire somebody (delegate/train/manage others) & grow.

I know my options, but I'm worried about the consequences. It'd be one thing if he was retiring and I was taking over, but that's not the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by genecarp

Have you told him how you feel and what you are thinking?GMOD

Yea, in the short. He knows my motives and my dreams, but refuses to see past it.

btw I re-wrote my story, I didn't like the way it came off the first time I typed it. So maybe it's a little more clear.

rwa · 11-03-2009, 02:56 PM

I had a college room mate once, a farm boy from West Texas. Family farm was 1 &1/2 sections of land (approx 1000 acres). I recall listening to a phone conversation where he was telling his Dad if he had the farm, he'd sub-divide it and develop it. .... Now, this farm was approx 30 miles outside of Planview, Texas, I sincerely doubted there would be a need for a 1000 acre sub-division in the near future. In fact, here it is 40 years later and there is still not another home within 5 miles of the farm house. Did I mention this kid had a new car every year, getting a college education, had an ungodley amount of money to spend, home had an in door pool ... all at the expense of his Dad's sweat on that family farm? So happens when you own a 1000 acres in West Texas and they discover oil you get filthy rich (as if he wasn't rich enough to begin with). Good thing ol' Dad didn't listen to the son's advice.

Point being, yes we all want to suceed in our own way. From what I gather in your writings, your Dad did with his decisions or else you would'nt be going to school and having the luxury of a family business to fall back on. Listen to your Dad's thoughts of the future, tell him what you would like to do with your future then discuss the family business and see if the business will fill both your needs. Best of luck ... and honor your Dad for what he has provided you.

ARI001 · 11-03-2009, 03:18 PM

I feel for you as this probably will not end well no matter what decision you make. Ultimately you have to do what is going to make you happy. Based on what you wrote it sounds like you need to move on and make your own way. I wish the best of luck to you whatever you decide.

BSCi · 11-03-2009, 04:04 PM

It seems like you might be insecure about going it alone, otherwise you would have just done it by now, regardless of what your dad thinks.

If you are certain your dad is making bad business decisions, and he won't even discuss it with you, it sounds like he is being more for a knothead, and its time to just show him you have a solid understanding of the industry by leaving the company and putting more effort into your side business.

So if he won't even take the time to explain why you're wrong or explain himself, he is not treating you like a business partner. Maybe you need to tell him, "Hey, I am willing to be your partner, but you have to give me enough respect that we are being honest and forthcoming with eachother."

If you need to, save up and continue working until you can break away on your own and go without working for a month if necessary.

Ron Wilson · 11-03-2009, 04:43 PM

Having been in your shoes, I have 2 pieces of advice for you:

1-RUN FAST!
2-RUN FAR!

I’m not kidding. Reading your post brought me to tears. I was about your age when I went to work for my father, a homebuilder, later turned remodeler. I’m 58 years old now, and I regret that decision more than anything I have ever done before or since.

Pay no attention to any advice you get from anybody who hasn’t worked for their father. Unless you’ve done it, you have no idea what a hell it is. At 21 it is bad enough, but wait until you are in your 30’s. If your father is still running the show, he will control every single aspect of your life. How much money you make, when you work, where you work, when you take your vacation. IT IS AN UNNATURAL RELATIONSHIP AT THAT POINT! You are supposed to leave the nest and go off on your own. Once he realizes he has that much control over you, it will be like you are forever his ten year old son.

And forget about getting any support from your mother or your siblings. They love the idea of you “taking care of” the family business.

I could write ten pages here describing what a bad idea it is to work in a family business. And this isn’t just me talking. I’ve run into a lot of guys who have been in the same boat and hated every minute of it. I would run into these guys at the lumberyards over the years, and we would just nod knowingly to each other. Or go cry over a couple of beers for a few hours. Your situation is not unique.

And I actually get along great with my father, who is now long retired and in his 80’s. That just makes it worse! You want to quit so bad it hurts, but then you start thinking about the pain and embarrassment you will bring to your folks if you quit, and you just suck it up and go to work. Then the resentment starts to build up, and you enter into a love-hate relationship with your father.

I’m going to stop here, because I’m starting to go down a road that has been closed for a long time.

It will be a very hard decision for you. I’ve known guys who have quit, and things were very difficult with the families for a very long time. You have the advantage of being young, and it will be easier to leave now, especially when you get your degree. Most people outside of your immediate family will understand and encourage you. If you wait until you’re in your 30’s, your folks will never forgive you.

Bottom line, if you are going to quit, do it now!

And remember this: There is no such thing as an indispensable man! Your father will find someone to replace you, especially in this economy.

Good luck with your decision, my heart goes out to you.

Ron

PS-Are you sure that posting as much detail as you did is a good idea? It's a small world, and there's a chance your father could read these posts.

tomstruble · 11-03-2009, 04:49 PM

take over the buisness put the old man into just sales then eventually retirement,its nice to have an existing buisness to start with

start slow, bring in the kind of buisness you are looking to do
show him the money,he will come around

mikec · 11-03-2009, 05:33 PM

All I will say is......Orange County Choppers

tomstruble · 11-03-2009, 05:46 PM

ah yea ,there's that too

Tinstaafl · 11-03-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstruble

take over the buisness put the old man into just sales then eventually retirement,its nice to have an existing buisness to start with

start slow, bring in the kind of buisness you are looking to do
show him the money,he will come around

Tom, I really wish I had your knack for condensing three pages' worth of advice into a couple of sentences.

I can only fantasize about what it would have been like for me to inherit a mature, functional business (which, if I get the right drift from the OP, also paid for my college education). Can I please have a show of hands from those who are working today at the occupation they thought they wanted 20-30 years ago? And then another from those who aren't?

It's exceedingly rare to make it (on your own) very far in life while doing only what truly brings you joy. The mortgage has to be paid, the kids need orthodontia, maybe you'd really like to buy a boat, and SWMBO has her needs as well.

The longer you live, the more you realize that life is a series of compromises. That does NOT mean that you have to be miserable, but it does mean that your best chance of making it through without drowning is to settle for happiness rather than ecstasy.

Ask Dad, and if he's candid, I bet he'll have a long list of things he didn't do that he would have liked to. But in the end, he has a successful business to hand to you on a silver platter. If you take it over and make it flourish, even if that means taking it in a different direction, I can guarantee that he'll be busting his buttons with pride and joy.

I'll also guarantee that he'll fight you tooth and nail regarding any changes as long as he has any say whatsoever.

N.Schiffer · 11-03-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwa

I had a college room mate once, a farm boy from West Texas. Family farm was 1 &1/2 sections of land (approx 1000 acres). I recall listening to a phone conversation where he was telling his Dad if he had the farm, he'd sub-divide it and develop it. .... Now, this farm was approx 30 miles outside of Planview, Texas, I sincerely doubted there would be a need for a 1000 acre sub-division in the near future. In fact, here it is 40 years later and there is still not another home within 5 miles of the farm house. Did I mention this kid had a new car every year, getting a college education, had an ungodley amount of money to spend, home had an in door pool ... all at the expense of his Dad's sweat on that family farm? So happens when you own a 1000 acres in West Texas and they discover oil you get filthy rich (as if he wasn't rich enough to begin with). Good thing ol' Dad didn't listen to the son's advice.

Point being, yes we all want to suceed in our own way. From what I gather in your writings, your Dad did with his decisions or else you would'nt be going to school and having the luxury of a family business to fall back on. Listen to your Dad's thoughts of the future, tell him what you would like to do with your future then discuss the family business and see if the business will fill both your needs. Best of luck ... and honor your Dad for what he has provided you.

Just for the record, I'm paying my way through schoo, I've bought and paid for BOTH of my trucks, I've never had anything handed to me, besides a place to work, and for that I'm very grateful. I'm not getting defensive, but I just wanted to make sure it didn't come off as I was a "daddys boy"

I agree and would love to take over and get the business on track, and grow but I don't see him wanting to retire anytime soon, or step down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSCi

It seems like you might be insecure about going it alone, otherwise you would have just done it by now, regardless of what your dad thinks.

If you are certain your dad is making bad business decisions, and he won't even discuss it with you, it sounds like he is being more for a knothead, and its time to just show him you have a solid understanding of the industry by leaving the company and putting more effort into your side business.

So if he won't even take the time to explain why you're wrong or explain himself, he is not treating you like a business partner. Maybe you need to tell him, "Hey, I am willing to be your partner, but you have to give me enough respect that we are being honest and forthcoming with eachother."

If you need to, save up and continue working until you can break away on your own and go without working for a month if necessary.

Again I agree, it's not so much bad decisions, just not the right decisions. If that makes any sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wilson

Having been in your shoes, I have 2 pieces of advice for you:

1-RUN FAST!
2-RUN FAR!

I’m not kidding. Reading your post brought me to tears. I was about your age when I went to work for my father, a homebuilder, later turned remodeler. I’m 58 years old now, and I regret that decision more than anything I have ever done before or since.

Pay no attention to any advice you get from anybody who hasn’t worked for their father. Unless you’ve done it, you have no idea what a hell it is. At 21 it is bad enough, but wait until you are in your 30’s. If your father is still running the show, he will control every single aspect of your life. How much money you make, when you work, where you work, when you take your vacation. IT IS AN UNNATURAL RELATIONSHIP AT THAT POINT! You are supposed to leave the nest and go off on your own. Once he realizes he has that much control over you, it will be like you are forever his ten year old son.

And forget about getting any support from your mother or your siblings. They love the idea of you “taking care of” the family business.

I could write ten pages here describing what a bad idea it is to work in a family business. And this isn’t just me talking. I’ve run into a lot of guys who have been in the same boat and hated every minute of it. I would run into these guys at the lumberyards over the years, and we would just nod knowingly to each other. Or go cry over a couple of beers for a few hours. Your situation is not unique.

And I actually get along great with my father, who is now long retired and in his 80’s. That just makes it worse! You want to quit so bad it hurts, but then you start thinking about the pain and embarrassment you will bring to your folks if you quit, and you just suck it up and go to work. Then the resentment starts to build up, and you enter into a love-hate relationship with your father.

I’m going to stop here, because I’m starting to go down a road that has been closed for a long time.

It will be a very hard decision for you. I’ve known guys who have quit, and things were very difficult with the families for a very long time. You have the advantage of being young, and it will be easier to leave now, especially when you get your degree. Most people outside of your immediate family will understand and encourage you. If you wait until you’re in your 30’s, your folks will never forgive you.

Bottom line, if you are going to quit, do it now!

And remember this: There is no such thing as an indispensable man! Your father will find someone to replace you, especially in this economy.

Good luck with your decision, my heart goes out to you.

Ron

PS-Are you sure that posting as much detail as you did is a good idea? It's a small world, and there's a chance your father could read these posts.

Thanks for the insight, very good advice, this is by far the hardest decision, but I'm going to talk to him and see where it goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstruble

take over the buisness put the old man into just sales then eventually retirement,its nice to have an existing buisness to start with

start slow, bring in the kind of buisness you are looking to do
show him the money,he will come around

That would be ideal, and it would be great to continue and grow... but I don't know if he's got it in him to allow it. He himself doesn't even know if he wants to keep it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinstaafl

Tom, I really wish I had your knack for condensing three pages' worth of advice into a couple of sentences.

I can only fantasize about what it would have been like for me to inherit a mature, functional business (which, if I get the right drift from the OP, also paid for my college education). Can I please have a show of hands from those who are working today at the occupation they thought they wanted 20-30 years ago? And then another from those who aren't?

It's exceedingly rare to make it (on your own) very far in life while doing only what truly brings you joy. The mortgage has to be paid, the kids need orthodontia, maybe you'd really like to buy a boat, and SWMBO has her needs as well.

The longer you live, the more you realize that life is a series of compromises. That does NOT mean that you have to be miserable, but it does mean that your best chance of making it through without drowning is to settle for happiness rather than ecstasy.

Ask Dad, and if he's candid, I bet he'll have a long list of things he didn't do that he would have liked to. But in the end, he has a successful business to hand to you on a silver platter. If you take it over and make it flourish, even if that means taking it in a different direction, I can guarantee that he'll be busting his buttons with pride and joy.

I'll also guarantee that he'll fight you tooth and nail regarding any changes as long as he has any say whatsoever.

again I wasn't handed school, vehicles, anything besides a job and I appreciated that. But that's not going to be the reason I stay, that's for sure. Also I'm not saying going right off on my own, but working in a feild I enjoy for a while, then possibly branch off. We'll see.

**loneframer** · 11-03-2009, 07:30 PM

Here is the condensed version of my experience.

I worked for my dad through High School and for the first year after graduating doing repairs and remodeling in a small town. I got laid off that winter and got a job 35 miles away doing new construction in a resort community while still living at home.
When pop got busy in the Spring, he asked me to come back, but I felt as though I had found my direction in new construction with good potential to move up the company ladder, so I declined his offer.
I went 23 years without talking to my mother or father because of my decision. I was told to leave home and not come back. That was in 1986. My dad decided to make peace with me this past May, he died on August 7. I don't regret my decision because I would have lost out on so many things that have defined who and what I am. I do regret the fact that my father lost a relationship with his son and ultimately his grandsons for so many years due to his stubborness.
My advice to you is to follow your dreams if you want to have a fulfilling life.

NormW · 11-03-2009, 07:51 PM

Looks like you received all kinds of excellent advice, not sure If I could add anything to help.

I've mentioned before, that I worked for a local lumber Co.
They had the same dilemma you currently have. Two of the children stayed with the business. The reason it worked for everyone was... When the children finished school and committed themselves to the business, they where the new BOSS... PERIOD.

The father worked right up till the end, was treated with great respect, behind the scenes he probably drove the kids nuts, but they seemed happy enough with the arrangement, and there was no doubt, the kids were in charge.

You know your Dad better than anyone, so you know how it'll pan out... But at least this way, He made the final decision, and the consequences of his decision, will be on his conscience (mostly).

N.Schiffer · 11-03-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loneframer

Here is the condensed version of my experience.

I worked for my dad through High School and for the first year after graduating doing repairs and remodeling in a small town. I got laid off that winter and got a job 35 miles away doing new construction in a resort community while still living at home.
When pop got busy in the Spring, he asked me to come back, but I felt as though I had found my direction in new construction with good potential to move up the company ladder, so I declined his offer.
I went 23 years without talking to my mother or father because of my decision. I was told to leave home and not come back. That was in 1986. My dad decided to make peace with me this past May, he died on August 7. I don't regret my decision because I would have lost out on so many things that have defined who and what I am. I do regret the fact that my father lost a relationship with his son and ultimately his grandsons for so many years due to his stubborness.
My advice to you is to follow your dreams if you want to have a fulfilling life.

I'm sorry about that, and I hope it wouldn't turn that bad, however I don't think it would because of my brothers situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NormW

Looks like you received all kinds of excellent advice, not sure If I could add anything to help.

I've mentioned before, that I worked for a local lumber Co.
They had the same dilemma you currently have. Two of the children stayed with the business. The reason it worked for everyone was... When the children finished school and committed themselves to the business, they where the new BOSS... PERIOD.

The father worked right up till the end, was treated with great respect, behind the scenes he probably drove the kids nuts, but they seemed happy enough with the arrangement, and there was no doubt, the kids were in charge.

You know your Dad better than anyone, so you know how it'll pan out... But at least this way, He made the final decision, and the consequences of his decision, will be on his conscience (mostly).

Thanks I know this really is a tough decision and I didn't really expect a answer so much on here, but more so some new thoughts upon it.

**loneframer** · 11-03-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.Schiffer

I'm sorry about that, and I hope it wouldn't turn that bad, however I don't think it would because of my brothers situation.

My point is, you have to follow your heart. I was faced with giving up a job I loved, where I had made alot of friends and was making nice money to go back to a job that I got no satisfaction out of whatsoever. There are few things I would trade for all that I've experienced over the years and I have no regrets.
You need to decide where you will find inner peace and go for it.

Darwin · 11-03-2009, 09:56 PM

tell your dad to go fly a kite!

Magic Hammer · 11-03-2009, 10:14 PM

Honor your Father and Mother. You should feel lucky to spend time with your Father and be handed a business.
You may not find happiness by changing your situation and running away. Talk to your Dad tell him what you need to stay and for God's sake hire a welder.
Work on the business not in it.
Good Luck,

TERM101 · 11-03-2009, 10:15 PM

Do what is going to make you happy. I've been dealing with a situation VERY similar to yours for the past 20 years now and nothing has changed. No matter how much I do/did noone is ever any happier. Look out for yourself first then worry about others.