Does Anybody Remember?

Mike Finley

I remember when I was a youngster growing up on the 70s with my skate board and long hair, my Uncle was in construction, he did cement work and he was "rich", he always had money to buy us ice cream or take us to the movies, he always had a new motorcycle or a fast cool car. I had a neighbor in the apartment building we lived in who got up really early everyday to go to work, he was in construction too, he framed houses as I recall. He made really good money too. As I got older I had friends that went into construction, they started out at the bottom as laborers, most only lasted a summer or two but a few others stayed with it, over the years they seemed to have more money then the rest of us too. I also remember a family in another town we lived in, they were "the" family, you know the one, every small town has a family that everyone knows about. The kids were all hell raisers, they had fast cars, got into trouble, had way too much money then everybody else. Their family owned a construction company.

I remember too the guys who worked highway construction and hearing how much money they made, the guys running heavy machinery, those were really high paying jobs compared to what was available at that time. A guy working construction was pretty much a guy with a really good income.

Which brings us to today and this : What the hell happened?

Mike Finley

Does anybody else remember when construction jobs were thought of completely different then they are today?

K2

We didn't stick together. Still don't.

mickeyco

I remember those days as well, among other factors the biggest problem is excessive immigration and illegal immigration.

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Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.

Creosote

I grew up in Detroit and in the 70s you either worked for the big three auto makers or you had a construction trade of some kind. Having a trade you were thought of something back then. Now today you work in a trade and you are labled not very smart and have no money. What a shame.

I had a few good buddies that were rod busters and they made big money back then but they always were in the unemployment lines during the winter...

L. B. Condulet

I think construction jobs pay about the same they did 25 years ago. Construction wages have pretty much remained flat while the cost of living has skyrocketed.

Creosote

I always remember my pops who now is 73 and still doing some remoldeling work, saying, "I can't belive bread costs $3 bucks loaf, when I was growing up it was .10 cents". I say pops you made $5 an hours back then now you make $50 an hour, so its really the same price if not cheaper for that loaf...

Tom M

I know only a few real successful builders. Every kid and cousin is under the umbrella of that original business. All of them have a house built for them and nice cars and none of them know what the hell is going on with construction. I saw the same things you say growing up and thats why I got in it. I would never put myself through this crap again had I known it would be like this. Some of those old guys were just flat out hard workers and new little beyond there trade and experience. Now since the housing boom you need computer literacy, marketing, specialty, enhance knowledge of codes, stronger contracts more updated equipment. Those guys just shook hands and worked they dont even know how to turn on the damn computer. Why should they there in construction not computers. Now you have people researching material and methods while being taught how to do it right on the computer. Now you get quizzed about technical data for products you may of never heard of before the moment you walk through the door. So now you have a lawyer building a deck during the weekend and his wife thinks she can design a kitchen and that handy Uncle or laid off union friend. Your just a grunt with dirty finger nails unless to put a army of guys that bang out a job cheap in a third of the time it normally takes. The youth doesnt want to get in the trades cause they are lazy from playing games on the computer and think they are above a laborer doing "wet back " things for money that couldnt pay a rent let alone a mcmansion. Sorry Im ranting again Im just bitter of late.

RYANINMICHIGAN

Yep My dad was a super for a bridge builder and also had his own flat work company. very respectable jobs. That is also why I got in it. But also cause I never really had a choice. but I grew to love it very quickly.

KentWhitten

All of these types of "what the hell happened?" always reminds me of what George Carlin said:

"Sometime during my life, toilet paper became bathroom tissue. ..."

politically correctness? democrats? just plain evolving from our previous generation?

I know my dad said to me "you don't want to do my job (FAA flight specialist) because......"

I tell my kids the same thing "don't go into construction" seriously, most parts of construction are too tough to make a GOOD living. Sometimes I made really good money, sometimes, I was as poor as could be. I have stayed becasue that's what I'm good at.

I do remember my old boss, when I was about 25 maybe, sitting down to breakfast with me. He said "I'm getting out of framing and doing something else. And I will give you advice right now, get out of construction and stay out"

I didn't listen to him.

How can you compete when it is now fully acceptable by most americans to hire illegals to build your home?

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

tnt specialty

What the hell happened?

Illegal immigration happened.

Oh yeah, I remember the days.

At 26, after a few years of roofing & framing peice-working, (which I always made plenty of $; Just blew it all, having fun), I decided that I had better get with the program; So I got my Calif. Contr. Lic. C39.

A year later added the "B' licesnse.

Four years later, I built my first personal home, bought and paid for! (This was 1988); Not million dollar home; Not a "tract" home either; A very a nice home in an established "estate" subdivision.

I relocated to Colorado in 92'. That's right about the time the illegals started gaining momentum in this area. By 02'-03', the contruction industry was trashed.

Was talking with a contractor who was retiring a few years ago. He was thinking back to a time when he drove to the office/yard; There were nice trucks, young men, some with new families, some buying their first homes, etc... For the most part, energetic, industrious, ambitious people.

"Today", he said; Now the parking lot is full of broken-down cars with ladders strapped to the roofs....no one hardly speaks English...they're all complaing that they want more $......or they asking for more $...It takes twice, maybe three times the supervision to get the same work done...the quality is nowhere near where it was years ago....

You get the picture....

KillerToiletSpider

The decline in construction pay coincides with the decline of labor unions, a union journeyman plumber here in Chicago makes roughly 40 bucks an hour on the check, plus benefits, the same guy working for a non-union shop is making half that if he is lucky.

__________________
A flush is better than a full house.

L. B. Condulet

When I was a younger man, it really meant something if people considered you a Journeyman. 25 years ago when I drove up onto a jobsite, I would see other Journeymen, plumbers and carpenters. We would greet each other and exchange chit chat, maybe some job gossip or a funny joke. All tradesmen respected each other and each tradesman took great pride in his work and your ego was based on how good you were at your trade.

I learned electrical from a guy named Bud. He's dead and gone but back in the day he was a God. He was the shop's best Journeyman and I was the luckiest guy in the world to be his helper. He was tough, but reasonable. That guy forgot more about electrical than I'll ever know.

Anyway, everybody wanted to please Bud. If Bud said your work was good, man you were on cloud nine! If he said you did a bad job, you would be emotionally crushed. That was the kind of work ethic we had in those days. I watched Bud like a hawk, I adopted all the tricks and techniques he used. I was his apprentice and god-damned proud of it.

The years passed by and I became a Journeyman Electrician. In my world, that was the best thing a guy could be. My **** didn't stink and I was admired and respected by the eager kids coming up in the trades. Back in the day, being a Journeyman anything was the cats a55.

Flash forward: Today when I walk onto a jobsite all I see are shabbily dressed Mexicans talking furtively amongst themselves. Instead of Led Zeppelin blasting from radios all I hear is mariachi music. Gone is the camaraderie and brotherhood. There's no longer anybody that greets you and talks shop, in fact, there are no Journeymen....

All the Journeymen are gone. Nobody but me remembers how glorious it was to be a Journeyman. All we have today are installers. All the Journeymen became contractors and the installers know how to do what they're doing but they don't know why. None of my guys are even aware that our work is governed by an Electrical Code. They know I like things done a certain way but they think I made up these rules about splicing and stapling cables. Even if they knew about the electrical code, they would not be able to read it.

My friends, the glory days of construction are over.

tnt specialty

L.B. ...so true....

A truck like I have today cost $ 10,000 in 1984
My good roofers/framers made $ 800/week

That same truck today costs $ 35,000
A top roofer'framer MAY make $ 1,000/week

Using the truck as an scale;
That roofer should be making $ 3,500/week

You can use the price of homes and get about the same result.
The $'s just not there anymore.

Mike Finley

I'm kind of sorry I even started this post. Just crushing me in depression reading some of the stories.

But dammit, I tell ya, in the end it just feeds my desire to create a nice "private boys club" as I build my business. I want to return to those old ways as much as possible, creating a place where guys can get some of that old stuff back, make a damn good living at the same time and have some fun.

Maybe that's why I get so fired up about not shorting yourself in this industry money wise being an owner. The base to be able to provide any of that security starts first with getting paid well from your customers, without that you're choke holded into the same crap you hear here. When people start throwing words around like Honesty and dishonest when it comes to billing for your work that's what makes me just shake my head. Next time somebody thinks somebody is being dishonest by charging well for what they are doing, come back and read this thread. The first thing all of us need to do is stop apologizing for trying to create for us a standard of living as high as the customers we do work for!

Flacan

Evidently the uneducated illiterate illegals are more efficient than us, as otherwise we wouldn't be hiring them.

I'm not glad to say that, so don't get me wrong please.

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Raimo Kumpulainen
Those who don't remember the past, are condemned to repeat it.

L. B. Condulet

If by more efficient you mean "they show up every day on time" I would agree. It's not that they're setting the world on fire with their construction skills, they're the only guys who will show up on a Monday morning.

KentWhitten

100% agree there. In some ways, we did it to ourselves. Funny thing here in the Boston area, the Mexicans are getting underbid by the Portuguese. It probably won't stop until everything needing labor is made by China...including housing.

__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

Custom Cabinetry - Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Scarborough, Kennebunkport, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Cumberland, Ogunquit, Maine

Salmon Falls Cabinetry

slowsol

As of late this industry is killing me. I am young, but I play a lead carpenter on most occasions. I plan on opening a company of my own in the next 5-10 years. I don't think I am ready to go into business for myself. I would like to get some more experience for the sake of myself and my future customers. Unfortunately, unless you are working for yourself there is no money in it.

It makes me sick that I bust my butt everyday to meet a schedule for bosses that "could get it done on time if they were doing it". Of course they could get it done, but that standard of work (for me) is unacceptable and butchered.

I am tired of working for employers that don't give a second thought about quality as long you get the job done and go on to the next one. Ten jobs worth a dime add up to a dollar. Well guess what? One job worth a dollar adds up to the same amount.

I don't understand how you are expected to care about your job when at the end of the day you can barely pay your bills with the money you busted your butt for. Staying non-union doing the work I am doing now is going to top me out at what? Maybe $20 an hour? With crappy or no benefits to boot.

These are my problems with the construction industry from a more youthful point of view.

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-John

We'll have to grab a longer board. I forgot to put the wood stretcher in the truck today.

KillerToiletSpider

I have one credo I drill into my employees, you get paid by the hour, take your time, and do it right the first time. Doing it right means that rough ins look as good as they work, and trim work looks like a manufacturers brochure. I never have told my guys to hurry up and get it done, because doing it twice is going to cost more than doing it once the right way. Trying to save on hour roughing in a shower leads to things like a volume control valve installed upside down in a slate walled shower, that $100.00 dollars saved in an hour suddenly becomes $5000.00 to take the slate down to open the wall and fix it.

__________________
A flush is better than a full house.