Do You Mark Up Permit Fees And Show It?

Mike Finley

I'm considering adding an additional charge to permit fees to cover the time involved. I don't think I can get away with charging for the total time involved, but possibly just a nominal dollar amount on top of each permit like a $90 fee and call it a processing/procurement fee.

I know a lot of us just rationalize it and say it's covered in our overhead or such, but in reality for most of us I suspect it's just donated time unless we charge for it separately.

GregS

Lawyers charge you the price of the stamp as well as the time it takes to lick and put the stamp on the envelope.

Charge an 'admin fee'. It's your time and time is money.

Rich Turley

I agree. I don't mark up the fees but my time in securing the permits is charged for. The alternative is for the HO to pull the permits. I prefer that and once the permits are obtained I will manage them and the inspections as a part of the job.

Rich

MattCoops

We do charge for that. Just give a flat rate.

Just got to figure a way to charge for time of picking up materials, staging a job, and carrying 3000 sq ft of durock up 3 flights of stairs.

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Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
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RobertCDF

I charge about $200 to get a permit... But its all part of the one price that I come up with using excel.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
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Custom Composite Decks

Mike Finley

So nobody actually is showing the charges, in other words your customers don't know you are charging a fee associated with the permit process?

thom

In my jurisdiction, permits are the responsibility of the builder. They are as much a part of the project as nails, shingles, etc. Why would one break out permits when selling a complete project?

Same Old

I don't understand these posts about showing numbers. I give my clients a price to build to the specs. How I get my number is my business. I've never had a problem with this method. No one has ever asked to see my numbers.

Mike Finley

I never said anything about a line item break out of your numbers. I'm talking about your fixed price with additional fees.

I cannot include the permit fee in my fixed price because I never know exactly what it will end up being, nor do I want to. It's always base price + permits, fees, changes...

Your job with a $10,000 final project number presented to your client with your $300 permit processing time accounted for in the fixed price does not generate the same net profit as a job with a $10,000 final number for your project with an additional $300 permit processing fee tacked on to it.

And if you do actually account for your $300 permit processing time then you are presenting a final number of $10,000 and I am presenting a final number of $9700.

For everyone who says I build it into my price, I think you are showing me someone who is really eating it.

Same Old

Who are you trying to justify the charge to? I guess I assumed that you feel you need to justify it to your client. No?

Mike Finley

Yes, maybe... we might now be talking about the same thing.

Mike Finley

***Way to much private information***

Same Old

...

Same Old

So you want to up sell the permit? I had an electrician that tried to up sell smoke detectors that were in the plans he bid. His antics promptly took down the company he had inherited from his father in less than a year. Permits are a basic part of any project. They should be included in your direct costs.
I guess I serve a different clientèle than you. I don't sell price. I'm not going to beat guys who play with numbers and sell you on the undercoating half way through while your house is torn up.
Now allowances are one thing. If you don't have all the selections made at the time the contract is signed, they work great to allow for the costs. But you should have a pretty good idea. If your clients want to spend more fine, but what does that have to do with permits?

Mike Finley

Same Old, sorry for the confusion, that's not what I'm talking about, but I could see how it could seem like I was.

Same Old

Then what are you talking about?

What's your question?

I charge for permits, my time to get them is included in the same line item. I don't have a name for it. It is included in my costs.
Do you know what your lumber will cost? The tub? You can calc your permits by taking five minutes at the city's website, or a phone call.
My clients don't ever see permit costs separate from the bid.

Now what was your question. I'm awaiting your misguided condescending response.

tnt specialty

Same Old

Mike Finley

I've gotta go, I'm late to pick up another shipment of undercoating and pins stripes and maybe some smoke detectors.

Same Old

As though your anecdote was some secret that only you get. You keep selling low and adding "extras" like permits to make a few extra coins. I'll stick with the upfront honest sell. If a prospective falls for the smoke and mirrors I'm not terribly interested in getting locked into a project with them.
You sound young Mike.

Mitch M

I think you might be getting too detailed. On a T & M job, I just charge a flat markup on everything but the labor and I have a specific labor rate which includes overhead, etc. The markup is basically a profit and aggravation of doing it. The labor includes going to get the permit, paying for it, posting it, etc.

As for the flat rate jobs, I just include it in the direct costs and mark it up at the end with everything else. If someone wants the line item costs on everything, I basically do not do the job. I am not trying to hide anything but it is not worth the time. I might give them line items for specific items so that they can decide if they want to drop or change it but that is it.

You also have to look at your time. You can mark up something alot but you could lose the job or you can do a reasonable markup and sleep that night. People are checking the local supply houses now. They know what things cost. At some point you have to decide how much your time is worth and whether they are tire kickers or just clients from ****.